MrMacSon wrote:neilgodfrey wrote:
..the crucifixion of the Christ is Pauline and pre-70.
On what basis do you . . . say these things? and, What do you mean by the crucifixion of 'the Christ'?
neilgodfrey wrote:
Good question. It's always good to be challenged and tested on the fundamentals.
Galatians 2:20; 1 Corinthians 1:23, 2:2, etc. -- hence the crucifixion of Christ is a Pauline teaching.
Paul spoke of crucifixion of the Christ as something that he personally could in some sense identify with.
Do you think there was originally a Jesus identified with Paul's Christ?
neilgodfrey wrote:
He "died", "mortified his old self", to have the life of Christ in him. It is a spiritual conquest relevant to Jews and gentiles alike.
I realise there is, in Paul's writings, "a spiritual conquest relevant to Jews and gentiles alike".
Are you saying Paul 'mortified his old self'? or another entity?
neilgodfrey wrote:
That it's pre-70 I base on the evidence that Paul demonstrates no knowledge of the events of the War of 68-70. He speaks of Jews as redeemable as anyone else. That doesn't prove the texts we work with are pre-70 but it's a reasonable starting point.
Could Paul be writing elsewhere: somewhere distant with little knowledge of events in Jerusalem in 68-70
AD/CE??
or, could Paul be writing long after the events of 68-70*, when the inability to rebuild Judaism or the Temple in Jerusalem was an accepted fate?
or both?
The possibility of a large exodus of Jews from Palestine would have galvanized the Jewish intellectual elite to produce an answer that evolved ...
Dennis Sutherland.
- * with the Pauline-texts 'time-shifted' into the pre-70 time-period? to align with the gospel texts (as a back-story as doctrine was being developed later; 2nd-C or later)?