And where does the AoI say that?In the AoI Jesus dies in the Sheol. Period.
Cordially, Bernard
And where does the AoI say that?In the AoI Jesus dies in the Sheol. Period.
Drat. Pity it seems to say he comes to earth at all then.
Bernard Muller wrote: ↑Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:16 amAnd where does the AoI say that?In the AoI Jesus dies in the Sheol. Period.
Cordially, Bernard
http://www.bibleinterp.com/articles/201 ... 8028.shtmlThe Beloved is told to descend to the firmament, and from there to sheol, but not to haguel (perdition or “hell”). Carrier rightly points out that some systems of thought located the realm of the dead not in an underworld, but in the heavens
Bernard Muller wrote: ↑Tue Jan 09, 2018 12:30 pm I do not care where Carrier placed Sheol.
I asked where in AoI it says that Jesus dies in Sheol.
Cordially, Bernard
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/t ... nsion.html. "Go forth and descent through all the heavens, and thou wilt descent to the firmament and that world: to the angel in Sheol thou wilt descend, but to Haguel thou wilt not go
It wouldn't put Sheol in the air. It's completely unclear where the writer puts sheol and it does not say Jesus was cruficied in sheol anyway, and McGrath does not as far as I can see agree with Carrier that Jesus died in A of I's sheol, or that sheol is likely in the air.Bernard Muller wrote: ↑Tue Jan 09, 2018 2:56 pm About Sheol:
The AoI says Jesus goes through the air downward, below the heavens (10:29-30).
So that would put Sheol in the air, at the highest, not exactly "outer space".
Cordially, Bernard
I don't agree. James McGrath agrees clearly with Carrier that the final destination of Jesus in AoI (hence, the place where he will die) is the Sheol. If even a Christian apologist agrees with Carrier on this point, then I should have bias when I listen Bernard or Archibald think otherwise.archibald wrote: ↑Wed Jan 10, 2018 1:18 amIt wouldn't put Sheol in the air. It's completely unclear where the writer puts sheol and it does not say Jesus was cruficied in sheol anyway, and McGrath does not as far as I can see agree with Carrier that Jesus died in A of I's sheol, or that sheol is likely in the air.Bernard Muller wrote: ↑Tue Jan 09, 2018 2:56 pm About Sheol:
The AoI says Jesus goes through the air downward, below the heavens (10:29-30).
So that would put Sheol in the air, at the highest, not exactly "outer space".
Cordially, Bernard
not only Carrier, but the scholars on which he is based about the AoI. I can concede that the recent research of Norelli goes against these previous views, but apart him, any scholar thinks that the 'pocket gospel' in AoI is interpolated.Bottom line: Carrier posits a missing earlier version of A of I for his case. That's all we really need to know. He does not rely on the extant A of I.
I do not think it is completely unclear: "Go forth and descend through all the heavens, and you will descend to the firmament and that world: to the angel in Sheol you will descend, but to Haguel you will not go." This reads like an itinerary, in order: heavens, firmament, "that world" (= the world of humans, pretty consistently throughout the text), sheol. It looks like sheol is further below the human world.