500 BCE Vase of the crucifixion of Jesus Christ
500 BCE Vase of the crucifixion of Jesus Christ
This is Jesus Christ depicted on 600 BCE Vases on a cross wearing a crown of thorns.
https://vivliothikiagiasmatos.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/joseph-yahuda-hebrew-is-greek.pdf
- Joseph D. L.
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Re: 500 BCE Vase of the crucifixion of Jesus Christ
Dionysus at the festival, Lenaia.
There's actually many vases and depictions of this scene, in which an idol of Dionysus is made from a trellis, tree, or herm. It's significance was to antropomoriphize the idol as it would allow Dionysus to return to the world and participate in the ritual sacrifice and marriage to a queen. Before the idol are loaves of bread and jugs of wine, blessed by Dionysus himself.
The crown he wears is no made of thorns. It's made of ivy.
There's other vases from around the same period in which a choir of dithyrambs gather around a cross-shaped alter, and children carry a cross behind the carriage of the soon to be married queen.
Shines new meaning into John, chapter two, doesn't it?
There's actually many vases and depictions of this scene, in which an idol of Dionysus is made from a trellis, tree, or herm. It's significance was to antropomoriphize the idol as it would allow Dionysus to return to the world and participate in the ritual sacrifice and marriage to a queen. Before the idol are loaves of bread and jugs of wine, blessed by Dionysus himself.
The crown he wears is no made of thorns. It's made of ivy.
There's other vases from around the same period in which a choir of dithyrambs gather around a cross-shaped alter, and children carry a cross behind the carriage of the soon to be married queen.
Shines new meaning into John, chapter two, doesn't it?
Re: 500 BCE Vase of the crucifixion of Jesus Christ
Dionysian symbols are everywhere in the ancient world.
Prutah of John Hyrcanus (134 BCE to 104 BCE). Obv: Double cornucopia
Judah Aristobulos - Double cornucopia (100 Bce)
Antoninus Pius - Crossed Cornucopia
Grape cluster/Trumpets - Bar Kokba
Pontos Amisos - 100 BC
Herod
Bar Kokba
Ptolomy II - Double Cornucopia
Prutah of John Hyrcanus (134 BCE to 104 BCE). Obv: Double cornucopia
Judah Aristobulos - Double cornucopia (100 Bce)
Antoninus Pius - Crossed Cornucopia
Grape cluster/Trumpets - Bar Kokba
Pontos Amisos - 100 BC
Herod
Bar Kokba
Ptolomy II - Double Cornucopia
https://vivliothikiagiasmatos.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/joseph-yahuda-hebrew-is-greek.pdf
- Joseph D. L.
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- Joined: Sat Nov 11, 2017 2:10 am
Re: 500 BCE Vase of the crucifixion of Jesus Christ
Last edited by Joseph D. L. on Sat Jul 28, 2018 12:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: 500 BCE Vase of the crucifixion of Jesus Christ
I would assume that the figure on the vase is a wax effigy or a simulacrum and it seems that the Roman adopted
and assimilated into the cult of Liber Pater and the festival of Liber Pater, 17th March coincides with the state funeral
of Julius Caesar and thus also assimilated into the Imperial cult.
Divus Iulius
Orpheus Bacchus
I am not sure if this is the Orpheus of Greek mythology or an epithet of Bacchus or vice versa.
and assimilated into the cult of Liber Pater and the festival of Liber Pater, 17th March coincides with the state funeral
of Julius Caesar and thus also assimilated into the Imperial cult.
Divus Iulius
Orpheus Bacchus
I am not sure if this is the Orpheus of Greek mythology or an epithet of Bacchus or vice versa.
https://vivliothikiagiasmatos.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/joseph-yahuda-hebrew-is-greek.pdf
- Joseph D. L.
- Posts: 1426
- Joined: Sat Nov 11, 2017 2:10 am
Re: 500 BCE Vase of the crucifixion of Jesus Christ
The images of Dionysus on the stamnoi were made from draping a dress cloth around a column and hanging a mask on it. Virgil writes about a similar practice done with Bacchus in his Georgics.
The controversial amulet of Orpheus-Bacchus, or Orpheus becomes Bacchus, details the mysteries of Bacchus no dates to the third century ad. But as you can see with the vases, and numerous herms, such a belief was already prevalent in pre-Christian times.
The controversial amulet of Orpheus-Bacchus, or Orpheus becomes Bacchus, details the mysteries of Bacchus no dates to the third century ad. But as you can see with the vases, and numerous herms, such a belief was already prevalent in pre-Christian times.
Re: 500 BCE Vase of the crucifixion of Jesus Christ
The last one titled Orpheus Bacchus is a photo-shopped picture of an amulet that Freke and Gandy used on their cover of a discredited book called the Jesus Mysteries. The original amulet if you can call that can not be found for verification.
http://www.bede.org.uk/orpheus.htm
I remember spending many hours tracking it down and reporting my findings on this forum.
The mythicists almost got me band for exposing the dishonesty of Freke and Gandy.
My conclusion was that it was a seal on a wine jug representing Bacchus the wine god. It has absolutely nothing to do with Christianity.
Sincerely,
John T
http://www.bede.org.uk/orpheus.htm
I remember spending many hours tracking it down and reporting my findings on this forum.
The mythicists almost got me band for exposing the dishonesty of Freke and Gandy.
My conclusion was that it was a seal on a wine jug representing Bacchus the wine god. It has absolutely nothing to do with Christianity.
Sincerely,
John T
"It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into."...Jonathan Swift
Re: 500 BCE Vase of the crucifixion of Jesus Christ
They are many variants of the amulet.
crucified skinned satyr
Christianity and Judaism are offshoots of the Dionysian mysterious and the Catholic Church, founded on the Imperial Cult of Julius Caesar
also primarily based on Dionysus,
Vast majority of written text and amulets most likely destroyed by the Catholic Church to cover it's tracks.
crucified skinned satyr
Christianity and Judaism are offshoots of the Dionysian mysterious and the Catholic Church, founded on the Imperial Cult of Julius Caesar
also primarily based on Dionysus,
Vast majority of written text and amulets most likely destroyed by the Catholic Church to cover it's tracks.
https://vivliothikiagiasmatos.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/joseph-yahuda-hebrew-is-greek.pdf
Re: 500 BCE Vase of the crucifixion of Jesus Christ
"Christianity and Judaism are offshoots of the Dionysian mysterious and the Catholic Church, founded on the Imperial Cult of Julius Caesar
also primarily based on Dionysus, Vast majority of written text and amulets most likely destroyed by the Catholic Church to cover it's tracks."..Ethan
Cover what tracks?
also primarily based on Dionysus, Vast majority of written text and amulets most likely destroyed by the Catholic Church to cover it's tracks."..Ethan
Cover what tracks?
"It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into."...Jonathan Swift
- Joseph D. L.
- Posts: 1426
- Joined: Sat Nov 11, 2017 2:10 am
Re: 500 BCE Vase of the crucifixion of Jesus Christ
Quite the reactionary response. No one, not even Freke and Gandy, has used the amulet as sole proof for pagan parallel arguments.
The bulk of the critics arguing is the amulet shows post-Christianity belief of a crucified figure. They dismiss for reasons you have put forward. Instead, they argue that the amulet was influenced by Christianity, and not the other way around.
But when you take in other auxiliary points into consideration...
1) That practices of gods being hung on posts was pre-Christian
2) That Dionysus himself was such a god, as shown on numerous stamnoi from the 6th-5th centuries bc, and continuing into the common era
3) That Orpheus was himself said to have founded the mysterious of Dionysus
4) Bacchus was a regional variant of Dionysus
5) Like Dionysus, Bacchus was also hung on trees (as per Virgil)
6) The typical procedure for initial into the mysteries was to emulate the founder
7) So the amulet shows Orpheus emulating Bacchus, and the caption ORPHEOS-BAKKIKOS, or Orpheus becomes Bacchus, confirms that fact
So not only is it authentic--no one at the time would know the subtle nuances of the mysteries that we know now--it is a continuation of a tradition that was pre-Christian, and that Christianity could only emulate.
The bulk of the critics arguing is the amulet shows post-Christianity belief of a crucified figure. They dismiss for reasons you have put forward. Instead, they argue that the amulet was influenced by Christianity, and not the other way around.
But when you take in other auxiliary points into consideration...
1) That practices of gods being hung on posts was pre-Christian
2) That Dionysus himself was such a god, as shown on numerous stamnoi from the 6th-5th centuries bc, and continuing into the common era
3) That Orpheus was himself said to have founded the mysterious of Dionysus
4) Bacchus was a regional variant of Dionysus
5) Like Dionysus, Bacchus was also hung on trees (as per Virgil)
6) The typical procedure for initial into the mysteries was to emulate the founder
7) So the amulet shows Orpheus emulating Bacchus, and the caption ORPHEOS-BAKKIKOS, or Orpheus becomes Bacchus, confirms that fact
So not only is it authentic--no one at the time would know the subtle nuances of the mysteries that we know now--it is a continuation of a tradition that was pre-Christian, and that Christianity could only emulate.