Who axed Acts 8:37?

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Ben C. Smith
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Re: Who axed Acts 8:37?

Post by Ben C. Smith » Tue Oct 16, 2018 1:33 pm

I had set out to study the Western text of Acts some time ago, an endeavor which involved me comparing and contrasting Vaticanus (as a representative Alexandrian/Eastern manuscript) with Bezae (as the representative Western manuscript). I had started to format a fully accented text for Vaticanus, a task which I am not even done doing (it being extremely tedious), and I had already laid out a means of comparing the two texts in tabular format for Acts 1. So here is Acts 1 according to Vaticanus and Bezae:

Boldfaced text is present in one codex but absent in the other.
Underlined text is in a different order in the other codex.


Codex Bezae (Greek)
Modified Western Text (English)
Codex Vaticanus (Greek)
Modified Revised Version (English)
1 Τὸν μὲν πρῶτον λόγον ἐποιησάμην περὶ πάντων, ὦ Θεόφιλε, ὧν ἤρξατο Ἰησοῦς ποιεῖν τε καὶ διδάσκειν
2 ἄχρι ἧς ἡμέρας ἀνελήμφθη ἐντειλάμενος τοῖς ἀποστόλοις διὰ πνεύματος ἁγίου οὓς ἐξελέξατο καὶ ἐκέλευσε κηρύσσειν τὸ εὐαγγέλιον
3 οἷς καὶ παρέστησεν ἑαυτὸν ζῶντα μετὰ τὸ παθεῖν αὐτὸν ἐν πολλοῖς τεκμηρίοις, τεσσεράκοντα ἡμερῶν ὀπτανόμενοις αὐτοῖς καὶ λέγων τὰς περὶ τῆς βασιλείας τοῦ θεοῦ.
4 καὶ συναλισκόμενος μετ᾿ αὐτῶν παρήνγειλεν αὐτοῖς ἀπὸ Ἱεροσολύμων μὴ χωρίζεσθαι, ἀλλὰ περιμένειν τὴν ἐπαγγελίαν τοῦ πατρὸς ἣν ἠκούσα[τέ] φησίν διὰ τοῦ στόματός μου:
5 ὅτι Ἰωάνης μὲν ἐβάπτισεν ὕδατι, ὑμεῖς δὲ ἐν πνεύματι ἁγίῳ βαπτισθήσεσθε καὶ ὃ μέλλεται λαμβάνειν οὐ μετὰ πολλὰς ταύτας ἡμέρας ἕως τῆς πεντηκοστῆς.
6 Οἱ μὲν οὖν συνελθόντες ἐπηρώτων αὐτὸν λέγοντες, Κύριε, εἰ ἐν τῷ χρόνῳ τούτῳ ἀποκαταστάνεις εἰς τὴν βασιλείαν τοῦ Ἰσραήλ;
7 καὶ εἶπεν πρὸς αὐτούς, Οὐχ ὑμῶν ἐστιν γνῶναι χρόνους ἢ καιροὺς οὓς ὁ πατὴρ ἔθετο ἐν τῇ ἰδίᾳ ἐξουσίᾳ:
8 ἀλλὰ λήμψεσθε δύναμιν ἐπελθόντος τοῦ ἁγίου πνεύματος ἐφ' ὑμᾶς, καὶ ἔσεσθέ μου μάρτυρες ἔν τε Ἰερουσαλὴμ καὶ πάσῃ τῇ Ἰουδαίᾳ καὶ Σαμαρίᾳ καὶ ἕως ἐσχάτου τῆς γῆς.
9 καὐτὰ εἰπόντος αὐτοῦ νεφέλη ὑπέβαλεν αὐτὸν καὶ ἀπήρτθη ἀπὸ ὀφθαλμῶν αὐτῶν.
10 καὶ ὡς ἀτενίζοντες ἦσαν εἰς τὸν οὐρανὸν πορευομένου αὐτοῦ, καὶ ἰδοὺ ἄνδρες δύο παρειστήκεισαν αὐτοῖς ἐν ἐσθῆτι λευκ,
11 οἳ καὶ εἶπαν, Ἄνδρες Γαλιλαῖοι, τί ἑστήκατε ἐμβλέποντες εἰς τὸν οὐρανόν; οὗτος ὁ Ἰησοῦς ὁ ἀναλημφθεὶς ἀφ' ὑμῶν οὕτως ἐλεύσεται ὃν τρόπον ἐθεάσασθε αὐτὸν πορευόμενον εἰς τὸν οὐρανόν.
1 The former treatise I made, O Theophilus, concerning all that Jesus began both to do and to teach,
2 until the day in which he was received up, after that he had given commandment through the Holy Spirit unto the apostles whom he had chosen and ordered to proclaim the gospel:
3 to whom he also shewed himself alive after his passion by many proofs, appearing unto them by the space of forty days, and speaking the things concerning the kingdom of God:
4 and, being assembled together with them, he charged them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the promise of the Father, which ye heard, saith he, from my mouth:
5 for John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit, and which ye are about to receive after these not many days until the Pentecost.
6 They therefore, when they were come together, asked him, saying, Lord, dost thou at this time restore the kingdom of Israel?
7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know times or seasons, which the Father hath set within his own authority.
8 But ye shall receive power when the Holy Spirit is come upon you; and ye shall be my witnesses both in Jerusalem and all Judaea and Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
9 And when he had said these things, a cloud received him, and he was taken away out of their sight.
10 And while they were looking steadfastly into heaven as he went, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
11 which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye looking into heaven? this Jesus, which was received up from you, shall so come in like manner as ye beheld him going into heaven.
1 Τὸν μὲν πρῶτον λόγον ἐποιησάμην περὶ πάντων, ὦ Θεόφιλε, ὧν ἤρξατο Ἰησοῦς ποιεῖν τε καὶ διδάσκειν,
2 ἄχρι ἧς ἡμέρας ἐντειλάμενος τοῖς ἀποστόλοις διὰ Πνεύματος Ἁγίου οὓς ἐξελέξατο ἀνελήμφθη·
3 οἷς καὶ παρέστησεν ἑαυτὸν ζῶντα μετὰ τὸ παθεῖν αὐτὸν ἐν πολλοῖς τεκμηρίοις, δι’ ἡμερῶν τεσσεράκοντα ὀπτανόμενος αὐτοῖς καὶ λέγων τὰ περὶ τῆς βασιλείας τοῦ Θεοῦ·
4 καὶ συναλιζόμενος παρήγγειλεν αὐτοῖς ἀπὸ Ἱεροσολύμων μὴ χωρίζεσθαι, ἀλλὰ περιμένειν τὴν ἐπαγγελείαν τοῦ Πατρὸς ἣν ἠκούσατέ μου·
5 ὅτι Ἰωάνης μὲν ἐβάπτισεν ὕδατι, ὑμεῖς δὲ ἐν Πνεύματι βαπτισθήσεσθε Ἁγίῳ οὐ μετὰ πολλὰς ταύτας ἡμέρας.
6 Οἱ μὲν οὖν συνελθόντες ἠρώτων αὐτὸν λέγοντες Κύριε, εἰ ἐν τῷ χρόνῳ τούτῳ ἀποκαθιστάνεις τὴν βασιλείαν τ Ἰσραήλ;
7 εἶπεν πρὸς αὐτούς Οὐχ ὑμῶν ἐστιν γνῶναι χρόνους ἢ καιροὺς οὓς ὁ Πατὴρ ἔθετο ἐν τῇ ἰδίᾳ ἐξουσίᾳ,
8 ἀλλὰ λήμψεσθε δύναμιν ἐπελθόντος τοῦ Ἁγίου Πνεύματος ἐφ’ ὑμᾶς, καὶ ἔσεσθέ μου μάρτυρες ἔν τε Ἱερουσαλὴμ καὶ ἐν πάσῃ τῇ Ἰουδαίᾳ καὶ Σαμαρείᾳ καὶ ἕως ἐσχάτου τῆς γῆς.
9 καὶ ταῦτα εἰπὼν αὐτῶν βλεπόντων ἐπήρθη, καὶ νεφέλη ὑπέλαβεν αὐτὸν ἀπὸ τῶν ὀφθαλμῶν αὐτῶν.
10 καὶ ὡς ἀτενίζοντες ἦσαν εἰς τὸν οὐρα[νὸ]ν πορευομένου αὐτοῦ, καὶ ἰδοὺ ἄνδρες δύο παρειστήκεισαν αὐτοῖς ἐν ἐσθήσεσι λευκαῖς,
11 οἳ καὶ εἶπαν Ἄνδρες Γαλειλαῖοι, τί ἑστήκατε βλέποντες εἰς τὸν οὐρανόν; οὗτος ὁ Ἰησοῦς ὁ ἀναλημφθεὶς ἀφ’ ὑμῶν εἰς τ[ὸν] οὐρανὸν οὕτως ἐλεύσεται ὃν τρόπον ἐθεάσασθε αὐτὸν πορευόμενον εἰς τὸν οὐρανόν.
1 The former treatise I made, O Theophilus, concerning all that Jesus began both to do and to teach,
2 until the day in which, after that he had given commandment through the Holy Spirit unto the apostles whom he had chosen, he was received up:
3 To whom he also shewed himself alive after his passion by many proofs, appearing unto them by the space of forty days, and speaking the things concerning the kingdom of God:
4 and, being assembled together, he charged them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the promise of the Father, which ye heard from me:
5 For John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit after these not many days.
6 They therefore, when they were come together, asked him, saying, Lord, dost thou at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?
7 He said unto them, It is not for you to know times or seasons, which the Father hath set within his own authority.
8 But ye shall receive power when the Holy Spirit is come upon you: and ye shall be my witnesses both in Jerusalem and in all Judaea and Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
9 And when he had said these things, as they were looking, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
10 And while they were looking steadfastly into heaven as he went, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
11 which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye looking into heaven? this Jesus, which was received up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye beheld him going into heaven.
12 Τότε ὑπέστρεψαν εἰς Εἰερουσαλὴμ ἀπὸ ὄρους τοῦ καλουμένου Ἐλαιῶνος, ὅ ἐστιν ἐνγὺς Ἰερουσαλὴμ σαββάτου ἔχον ὁδόν.
13 καὶ ὅτε εἰσῆλθεν, ἀνέβησαν εἰς τὸ ὑπερῷον οὗ ἦσαν καταμένοντες, ὅ τε Πέτρος καὶ Ἰωάνης [τ]ε Ἰάκωβος καὶ Ἀνδρέας, Φίλιππος καὶ Θωμᾶς, Βαρθολομαῖος καὶ Μαθθαῖος, Ἰάκωβος ὁ τοῦ Ἁλφαίου Σίμων ὁ ζηλωτὴς καὶ Ἰούδας Ἰακώβου.
14 οὗτοι πάντες ἦσαν προσκαρτεροῦντες ὁμοθυμαδὸν τῇ προσευχῇ σὺν ταῖς γυναιξὶν καὶ τέκνοις καὶ Μαρία μητρὶ τοῦ Ἰησοῦ καὶ τοῖς ἀδελφοῖς αὐτοῦ.
12 Then returned they unto Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is nigh unto Jerusalem, a sabbath day's journey off.
13 And when they were come in, they went up into the upper chamber, where they were abiding; both Peter and John, James and Andrew, Philip and Thomas, Bartholomew and Matthew, James of Alphaeus, Simon the Zealot, and Judas who was of James.
14 These all with one accord continued steadfastly in prayer, with the women and children, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and his brethren.
12 Τότε ὑπέστρεψαν εἰς Ἱερουσαλὴμ ἀπὸ ὄρους τοῦ καλουμένου Ἐλαιῶνος, ὅ ἐστιν ἐγγὺς Ἱερουσαλὴμ σαββάτου ἔχων ὁδόν.
13 καὶ ὅτε εἰσῆλθον, εἰς τὸ ὑπερῷον ἀνέβησαν οὗ ἦσαν καταμένοντες, ὅ τε Πέτρος καὶ Ἰωάνης καὶ Ἰάκωβος καὶ Ἀνδρέας, Φίλιππος καὶ Θωμᾶς, Βαρθολομαῖος καὶ Μαθθαῖος, Ἰάκωβος Ἀλφαίου καὶ Σίμων ὁ Ζηλωτὴς καὶ Ἰούδας Ἰακώβου.
14 οὗτοι πάντες ἦσαν προσκαρτεροῦντες ὁμοθυμαδὸν τῇ προσευχῇ σὺν γυναιξὶν καὶ Μαριὰμ τῇ μητρὶ Ἰησοῦ καὶ σὺν τοῖς ἀδελφοῖς αὐτοῦ.
12 Then returned they unto Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is nigh unto Jerusalem, a sabbath day’s journey off.
13 And when they were come in, they went up into the upper chamber, where they were abiding; both Peter and John and James and Andrew, Philip and Thomas, Bartholomew and Matthew, James of Alphaeus, and Simon the Zealot, and Judas of James.
14 These all with one accord continued steadfastly in prayer, with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brethren.
15 Ἐν δὲ ταῖς ἡμέραις ταύταις ἀναστὰς Πέτρος ἐν μέσῳ τῶν μαθητῶν εἶπεν· ἦν γὰρ ὁ ὄχλος ὀνομάτων ἐπὶ τὸ αὐτὸ ὡς ἑκατὸν εἴκοσι·
16 Ἄνδρες ἀδελφοί, δεῖ πληρωθῆναι τὴν γραφὴν ταύτην ἣν προεῖπεν τὸ πνεῦμα τὸ ἅγιον διὰ στόματος Δαυὶδ περὶ Ἰούδα τοῦ γενομένου ὁδηγοῦ τοῖς συλλαβοῦσιν τὸν Ἰησοῦν,
17 ὅτι κατηριθμημένος ἦν ἐν ἡμῖν ὃς ἔλαχεν τὸν κλῆρον τῆς διακονίας ταύτης.
18 Οὗτος μὲν οὖν ἐκτήσατο χωρίον ἐκ μισθοῦ τῆς ἀδικίας αὐτοῦ, καὶ πρηνὴς γενόμενος ἐλάκησεν μέσος, καὶ ἐξεχύθη πάντα τὰ σπλάνχνα αὐτοῦ.
19 καὶ γνωστὸν ἐγένετο πᾶσιν τοῖς κατοικοῦσιν Ἰερουσαλήμ, ὥστε κληθῆναι τὸ χωρίον ἐκεῖνο τῇ διαλέκτῳ αὐτῶν Ἁκελδαιμάχ, τοῦτ' ἔστιν, Χωρίον Αἵματος.
20 Γέγραπται γὰρ ἐν βίβλῳ ψαλμῶν, Γενηθήτων ἔπαυλις αὐτοῦ ἔρημος καὶ μὴ ὁ κατοικῶν ἐν αὐτῇ, καί, Τὴν ἐπισκοπὴν αὐτοῦ λαβέτω ἕτερος.
21 δεῖ οὖν τῶν συνελθόντων ἡμῖν ἀνδρῶν ἐν παντὶ τῷ χρόνῳ ὡς εἰσῆλθεν καὶ ἐξῆλθεν ἐφ' ἡμᾶς ὁ κύριος Ἰησοῦς Χριστός,
22 ἀρξάμενος ἀπὸ τοῦ βαπτίσματος Ἰωάνου ἕως τῆς ἡμέρας ἧς ἀνελήμφθη ἀφ' ἡμῶν, μάρτυρα τῆς ἀναστάσεως αὐτοῦ σὺν ἡμῖν γενέσθαι ἕνα τούτων.
23 καὶ ἔστησεν δύο, Ἰωσὴφ τὸν καλούμενον Βαρνάβαν, ὃς ἐπεκλήθη Ἰοῦστος, καὶ Μαθθίαν.
24 καὶ προσευξάμενοι εἶπαν, Κύριε, καρδιογνῶστα πάντων, ἀνάδειξον ὃν ἐξελέξω ἐκ τούτων τῶν δύο
25 ἀναλαβεῖν τόπον τὸν τῆς διακονίας ταύτης καὶ ἀποστολῆς, ἀφ' ἧς παρέβη Ἰούδας πορευθῆναι εἰς τὸν τόπον τὸν ἴδιον.
26 καὶ ἔδωκαν κλήρους αὐτῶν, καὶ ἔπεσεν κλῆρος ἐπὶ Μαθθίαν, καὶ συνεψηφίσθη μετὰ τῶν δώδεκα ἀποστόλων.
15 But in these days Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples, and said (for there was a multitude of persons together, about a hundred and twenty),
16 Men, brethren, it is needful that this scripture should be fulfilled, which the Holy Spirit spake before by the mouth of David concerning Judas, who was guide to them that took Jesus.
17 For he was numbered among us, he who received his portion in this ministry.
18 (Now this man obtained a field with the reward of his iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out,
19 which also became known to all the dwellers at Jerusalem; insomuch that in their language that field was called Akeldaimach, that is, Field of Blood.)
20 For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be made desolate, and let there be no dweller therein: and, His overseership let another take.
21 Of the men therefore which have companied with us in all the time that the Lord Jesus Christ went in and went out among us,
22 beginning from the baptism of John, unto the day that he was received up from us, of these must one become a witness with us of his resurrection.
23 And he put forward two, Joseph called Barnabas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias.
24 And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew of these two the one whom thou hast chosen,
25 to take up the place in this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas fell away, that he might go to his own place.
26 And they gave their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the twelve apostles.
15 Καὶ ἐν ταῖς ἡμέραις ταύταις ἀναστὰς Πέτρος ἐν μέσῳ τῶν ἀδελφῶν εἶπεν· ἦν τε ὄχλος ὀνομάτων ἐπὶ τὸ αὐτὸ ὡς ἑκατὸν εἴκοσι·
16 Ἄνδρες ἀδελφοί, δει πληρωθῆναι τὴν γραφὴν ἣν προεῖπε τὸ Πνεῦμα τὸ Ἅγιον διὰ στόματος Δαυεὶδ περὶ Ἰούδα τοῦ γενομένου ὁδηγοῦ τοῖς συλλαβοῦσιν Ἰησοῦν,
17 ὅτι κατηριθμημένος ἦν ἐν ἡμεῖν καὶ ἔλαχεν τὸν κλῆρον τῆς διακονίας ταύτης.
18 οὗτος μὲν οὖν ἐκτήσατο χωρίον ἐκ μισθοῦ τῆς ἀδικίας, καὶ πρηνὴς γενόμενος ἐλάκησεν μέσος, καὶ ἐξεχύθη πάντα τὰ σπλάγχνα αὐτοῦ·
19 καὶ γνωστὸν ἐγένετο πᾶσι τοῖς κατοικοῦσι Ἱερουσαλήμ, ὥστε κληθῆναι τὸ χωρίον ἐκεῖνο τῇ διαλέκτῳ αὐτῶν Ἀκελδαμάχ, τοῦτ’ ἔστιν Χωρίον Αἵματος.
20 γέγραπται γὰρ ἐν βίβλῳ Ψαλμῶν, Γενηθήτω ἔπαυλις αὐτοῦ ἔρημος καὶ μὴ ἔστω ὁ κατοικῶν ἐν αὐτῇ, καί, Τὴν ἐπισκοπὴν αὐτοῦ λαβέτω ἕτερος.
21 δεῖ οὖν τῶν συνελθόντων ἡμῖν ἀνδρῶν ἐν παντὶ χρόνῳ εἰσῆλθεν καὶ ἐξῆλθεν ἐφ’ ἡμᾶς ὁ Κύριος Ἰησοῦς,
22 ἀρξάμενος ἀπὸ τοῦ βαπτίσματος Ἰωάνου ἕως τῆς ἡμέρας ἧς ἀνελήμφθη ἀφ’ ἡμῶν, μάρτυρα τῆς ἀναστάσεως αὐτοῦ σὺν ἡμῖν γενέσθαι ἕνα τούτων.
23 Καὶ ἔστησαν δύο, Ἰωσὴφ τὸν καλούμενον Βαρσαββᾶν, ὃς ἐπεκλήθη Ἰοῦστος, καὶ Μαθθίαν.
24 καὶ προσευξάμενοι εἶπαν, Σὺ Κύριε καρδιογνῶστα πάντων, ἀνάδειξον ὃν ἐξελέξω ἐκ τούτων τῶν δύο ἕνα
25 λαβεῖν τὸν τόπον τῆς διακονίας ταύτης καὶ ἀποστολῆς, ἀφ’ ἧς παρέβη Ἰούδας πορευθῆναι εἰς τὸν τόπον τὸν ἴδιον.
26 καὶ ἔδωκαν κλήρους αὐτοῖς, καὶ ἔπεσεν κλῆρος ἐπὶ Μαθθίαν, καὶ συνκατεψηφίσθη μετὰ τῶν ἕνδεκα ἀποστόλων.
15 And in these days Peter stood up in the midst of the brethren, and said (and there was a multitude of persons together, about a hundred and twenty),
16 Men, brethren, it was needful that the scripture should be fulfilled, which the Holy Spirit spake before by the mouth of David concerning Judas, who was guide to them that took Jesus.
17 For he was numbered among us, and he received his portion in this ministry.
18 (Now this man obtained a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out,
19 and it became known to all the dwellers at Jerusalem; insomuch that in their language that field was called Akeldamach, that is, Field of Blood.)
20 For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be made desolate, and may there be no dweller therein: and, His overseership let another take.
21 Of the men therefore which have companied with us in all the time in which the Lord Jesus went in and went out among us,
22 beginning from the baptism of John, unto the day that he was received up from us, of these must one become a witness with us of his resurrection.
23 And they put forward two, Joseph called Barsabbas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias.
24 And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew of these two the one whom thou hast chosen,
25 to take the place in this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas fell away, that he might go to his own place.
26 And they gave lots for them; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.

Corrections welcome, especially as I have not reviewed this material for more than a year.
ΤΙ ΕΣΤΙΝ ΑΛΕΘΕΙΑ

Ulan
Posts: 1291
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Re: Who axed Acts 8:37?

Post by Ulan » Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:52 am

Okay, let's just add some data from the 1928 Ropes and Hatch paper. They statistically compared the Vulgate (1905 Oxford version) with א, A, B, C and 81, which they call the 'Old Uncials' (better Alexandrian text type, as 81 isn't an uncial). They looked at about half of the text of Acts, the portion that is extant in all of the considered manuscripts. They chose readings that are (i) "singular" to the "Old Uncials" and (ii) have a chance to be detected in a Latin translation (so no synonyms, for example). This way they ended up with 528 "singular" readings for the five manuscripts, readings that are not found in other text types (all this with regard to manuscripts known around their time).

This is the main result:
Image

Most of these readings that are found in the Vulgate agree with a majority of texts. From other data, they add that specific Byzantine readings are virtually absent from the Vulgate. The few you find (by different authors with a slightly different method) are either also explained by Western readings or some inconsequential errors. The bulk of the difference is Western readings. Though the structure of the Vulgate text is clearly Alexandrian in their view, it mostly preserves Western readings where those conform better to Latin language usage (whatever that specifically means).

The data for single manuscript comparisons:
Image

A is the most similar. A also has the most similarities to all other "Old Uncials" (this table should be the most interesting one with regard to what Ben tries to do up there):
Image

I guess Steven would now look at all these differences and call the manuscripts vastly different, which is one way of looking at it. Ropes and Hatch stress a different point. It's what they call the "solidarity" of the "Old Uncial" text. There are no outliers or sub-groups. Most manuscripts agree with a majority of all the others, and the differences are evenly spread out. This becomes obvious when you look at the detailed table:
Image

The difference between 2 and 15 looks large at first glimpse, but it pales compared to the numbers for identity with a majority of the texts, which means it's not really important.

I have to think about how using a composite text (the 1905 Vulgate Acts) influences these numbers.

Steven Avery
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Re: Who axed Acts 8:37?

Post by Steven Avery » Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:08 pm

You really have to limit the study to cases where there is a significant difference with the Byzantine Greek reading (which will genrtally be the TR reading.).

Ulan
Posts: 1291
Joined: Sat Mar 29, 2014 3:58 am

Re: Who axed Acts 8:37?

Post by Ulan » Wed Oct 17, 2018 11:20 pm

Steven Avery wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:08 pm
You really have to limit the study to cases where there is a significant difference with the Byzantine Greek reading (which will genrtally be the TR reading.).
Well, that's what this is supposed to be. This is only about readings that are specific for Alexandrian type manuscripts.

Steven Avery
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Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2014 9:27 am

Re: Who axed Acts 8:37?

Post by Steven Avery » Thu Oct 18, 2018 2:19 pm

Ahh, understood, thanks.

As for the 1905 Wordsworth Vulgate, that is often a minority Latin text, based on a small number of mss.

Ulan
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Joined: Sat Mar 29, 2014 3:58 am

Re: Who axed Acts 8:37?

Post by Ulan » Fri Oct 19, 2018 12:33 am

Given that your use of the expression "minority text" usually means "using the oldest manuscripts we have", which naturally also means that the number of mss. is limited, I take this as endorsement.

Steven Avery
Posts: 489
Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2014 9:27 am

Re: Who axed Acts 8:37?

Post by Steven Avery » Fri Oct 19, 2018 6:16 pm

If your goal is to approximate the c. 400 AD Vulgate text, the 11 or so mss that make up the Wordsworh edition might be competitive to the Clementine and other historical Vulgate editions. I don’t know of studies that look at a number or variants or tell you how often the Wordsworth mss. have a major split.

Ulan
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Re: Who axed Acts 8:37?

Post by Ulan » Sat Oct 20, 2018 1:47 am

Well, given that the Oxford NT was devised to correct all those doctrinally motivated changes and medieval readings in the Clementine Vulgate, with the goal to come closer to the original, I'd say it wins that competition with flying colors.

All of that doesn't really matter to the topic of the thread though. The original Vulgate quite certainly didn't contain 8:37, which seems to be a natural consequence of the chosen text base.

Steven Avery
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Re: Who axed Acts 8:37?

Post by Steven Avery » Sat Oct 20, 2018 10:20 am

Jerome said specifically that the eunuch believed and was baptised, the Old Latin line strongly favors the verse, the Wordsworth mss are split, the mass of the Vulgate mss suport the verse.

And the ECW including Irenaeus, Cyprian, Pontius the deacon , Hilary, Pacian, Chromatius, Augustine, the Speculum, Praedestinatus , Fulgentius and Theophylact all utilize the verse.

Plus dropping out of a minority of Vulgate mss is much easier than being added to the large majority, especially as the doctrine is very difficult for the middle ages Latin church.

So, I would say your "certainly" is a very weak claim. "Possibly" is more realistic.

Ulan
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Re: Who axed Acts 8:37?

Post by Ulan » Sat Oct 20, 2018 10:58 am

Steven Avery wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 10:20 am
Jerome said specifically that the eunuch believed and was baptised...
Yeah, we already went over all of this. Jerome didn't produce the Acts translation, so it doesn't matter what he quotes from the Old Latin version, from which we know that it had the verse.

The Oxford NT uses nearly all old Vulgate manuscripts that we have, so there isn't really anything you have in your hand against it. The stuff talking about "the majority of manuscripts" makes as little sense as when you make the same remark about Greek manuscripts. It's a measure that doesn't matter, because the later manuscripts (the "many") are at the end of a development process.

I'm not even sure why all of this would matter to the case for or against Acts 8:37. It doesn't. The important switch lies somewhere at the root between the Greek Western (which lies at the root of the Old Latin version) and the Alexandrian (which lies at the root of the Vulgate) text types. Nobody knows anything about that time when they diverged.

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