Giuseppe wrote: ↑Fri Dec 07, 2018 12:23 am
Really, I start to suspect that John the Baptist was modeled on Theudas. Already Lena Einhorn had introduced that possibility, by listing some similarities.
Here I find another ''coincidence'':
Theudas (/ˈθjuːdəs/; died c. 46 AD) was a Jewish rebel of the 1st century AD. Scholars attribute to his name a Greek etymology[1] possibly meant as “flowing with water”,[2] although with a Hellenist-styled ending.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theudas
If the
water was so strictly linked with Theudas (in the his name and in the place of the his apocalyticism, the Jordan river) then ''John the Baptist'' was modeled on Theudas to judaize the Gnostic concept of noûs (the true spiritual baptism).
See also
the importance of water in relation to John here.
*
.
* that Link is to an article by Neil Godfrey, titled "Jesus’ Baptism in the Context of the Myth of Water, Flight and Wilderness", in which Neil begins his commentary with "Our canonical gospels all begin the career of Jesus with John the Baptist", and moves to the baptism
and wilderness experience/journey of Jesus, prompted by and James M. Robinson's
On the Gattung of Mark (and John) (1970) and the
Apocalypse (or
Revelation) of Adam -
Robinson suggests a common source lies behind the Gospel of Mark’s beginning with the baptism and wilderness experience of Jesus, our canonical Book of Revelation’s reference to the birth of a child and the fleeing of its mother to the wilderness, a section of the “gnostic” "Apocalypse (or Revelation) of Adam" and a passage in the now mostly lost Gospel of Hebrews.
Robinson does not think that our Gospel of Mark was an attempt to historicize spiritual gnostic teachings but that
Mark adapted genuinely historical traditions to conform to a pattern of gnostic thought. We may wonder if it is necessary to bring any assumption of historical traditions to the question but that’s for each of us to decide.
The section of the Apocalypse of Adam is a list of proclamations from thirteen kingdoms ...
https://vridar.org/2018/12/06/jesus-bap ... ilderness/
Neil cites the the thirteen kingdoms passage from the
Apocalypse (or
Revelation) of Adam (from from Barnstone’s
The Other Bible). The
Apocalypse (or
Revelation) of Adam is also available
here, at the online Gnostic Society Library.
All the thirteen verses of the passage include "
And thus he came to the water." Neil notes that "Another possible translation of this phrase is “
And thus he came upon
the water”." Nearly all are preceded by reference to glory and power. The thirteenth ends with an additional suffix -
And thus he came to the water, in order that the desire of those powers might be satisfied.
Now, the the
Apocalypse (or
Revelation) of Adam is an early Gnostic text, another core one being
'The Apocryphon (Secret Revelation/Book) According to John' which provides narration of a elaborate Gnostic myth of creation and salvation
by the Saviour
to John.
When the text of '
The Secret Book According to John' opens the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus have already happened, and the disciple John is on his way to the Temple in Jerusalem, when he meets a Pharisee. The Pharisee tells John that Jesus has misled him and turned him away from the true traditions of his ancestors, the Jews. This encounter upsets John, who begins to question his beliefs.
At this point, the heavens open, and the Savior appears to John (strangely taking three forms—a child, a young person, and an elderly person). The Savior then begins a long speech to John: about God, and its nature and many spiritual dimensions, including aeons in male-female pairs, etc. A key aspect of the Gnostic God is thinking and actions arising, especially via a first thought called Forethought
and/or Barbēlō
and known as 'the womb of the Entirety', the first power who came forth via luminous water, "living water [which] provides all the realms" -
The One is majestic and has an immeasurable purity.
The One is a realm that gives a realm, life that gives life, a blessed one that gives blessedness, knowledge that gives knowledge, a good one that gives goodness, mercy that gives mercy and redemption, grace that gives grace.
Not as if the One possesses all this. Rather, it is that the One gives immeasurable and incomprehensible light.
What shall I tell you about it? Its eternal realm is incorruptible, at peace, dwelling in silence, at rest, before everything.
It is the head of all realms, and it sustains them through its goodness.
We would not know what is ineffable, we would not understand what is immeasurable, were it not for what has come from the father. This is the one who has told these things to us alone.
Now, this father is the One who beholds himself in the light surrounding him, which is the spring of living water, and provides all the realms. He reflects on his image everywhere, sees it in the spring of the spirit, and becomes enamored of his luminous water, for his image is in the spring of pure luminous water surrounding him.
The father’s thought became a reality, and she who appeared in the presence of the father in shining light came forth. She is the first power who preceded everything and came forth from the father’s mind as the forethought of all. Her light shines like the father’s light; she, the perfect power, is the image of the perfect and invisible virgin spirit.
She, the first power, the glory of Barbelo, the perfect glory among the realms, the glory of revelation, she glorified and praised the virgin spirit, for because of the spirit she had come forth.
She is the first thought, the image of the spirit. She became the universal womb, for she precedes everything,
- the mother-father,
the first human,
the holy spirit,
the triple male,
the triple power,
the androgynous one with three names,
the eternal realm among the invisible beings,
the first to come forth.
Barbelo asked the invisible virgin spirit to give her foreknowledge, and the spirit consented. When the spirit consented, foreknowledge appeared and stood by forethought. This is the one who came from the thought of the invisible virgin spirit. Foreknowledge glorified the spirit and the spirit’s perfect power, Barbelo, for because of her, foreknowledge had come into being.
She asked again to be given incorruptibility, and the spirit consented. When the spirit consented, incorruptibility appeared and stood by thought and foreknowledge. Incorruptibility glorified the invisible one and Barbelo. Because of her they had come into being.
Barbelo asked to be given life eternal, and the invisible spirit consented. When the spirit consented, life eternal appeared, and they stood together and glorified the invisible spirit and Barbelo. Because of her they had come into being.
She asked again to be given truth, and the invisible spirit consented. Truth appeared, and they stood together and glorified the good invisible spirit and its Barbelo. Because of her they had come into being.
This is the father’s realm of five. It is:
- the first human, the image of the invisible spirit, that is, forethought, which is Barbelo, and thought,
along with foreknowledge,
incorruptibility,
life eternal,
truth.
This is the androgynous realm of five, which is the realm of ten, which is the father.
The father gazed into Barbelo, with the pure light surrounding the invisible spirit, and its radiance. Barbelo conceived from it, and it produced a spark of light similar to the blessed light but not as great. This was the only child of the mother-father that had come forth, its only offspring, the only child of the father, the pure light …
http://gnosis.org/naghamm/apocjn-meyer.html
.
ie. water was important to the Gnostics, too.