Phoenician tenses.

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Ethan
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Phoenician tenses.

Post by Ethan » Sun Feb 03, 2019 4:01 pm

caedo "to slay"

n/a
Last edited by Ethan on Fri Sep 27, 2019 5:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
https://vivliothikiagiasmatos.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/joseph-yahuda-hebrew-is-greek.pdf

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lpetrich
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Re: Phoenician tenses.

Post by lpetrich » Fri Feb 15, 2019 1:32 am

Try using some Roman-alphabet transcription. There aren't many of us who can read the Phoenician alphabet.

Also, I don't think that I have the patience to give a complete introduction to Indo-European and Semitic linguistics. It should be obvious that Phoenician and Hebrew are much closer to Arabic, for instance, than to Latin or Greek. So I went to Verbix verb conjugator and found some verb conjugations. I filled in its gaps with Wikipedia and other sources. I used the plain present. Here are all the Indo-European ones, either ancient ones or medieval/modern ones:

English: -, -, -s / -, -, -
Old English: -, -st, -th, / -ath, -ath, -ath
Dutch: -, -t, -t / -en, -en, -en
German: -e, -st, -t / -en, -t, -en
Danish, Norwegian, Swedish: -r
Icelandic: -, -r, -r / -um, -idh, -a
Old Norse: -, -r, -r / -um, -idh, -a
Old Swedish: -er, -er, -er / -om, -in, -a
Runic Swedish: -r, -r, -r / -um, -in -a
Proto-Norse: -u, -ir, -idh / -um, -edh, -an
Gothic: -a, -is, -ith / -ôs, -ats / -am, -ith, -and
Proto-Germanic: -ô, -si, -thi / -amaz, -ith, -anthi

Irish: -m, -onn, -onn / -mid, -onn, -onn (2nd 3rd -onn or -ann)
Welsh: -af, -i, -a / -wn, -wch, -ant
Proto-Celtic: -û -mi, -si, -ti / -mu, -te, -nte

Polish: -e, -sz, - / -my, -cie, -a
Czech: -m, -sh, -te /-me, -te, -
Slovak: -m, -sh, - / -me, -te, -ju
Serbo-Croatian: -m, -sh, - / -mo, -te, -ju
Bulgarian: -a -m, -sh, - / -m, -te, -at -t
Russian: -ju, -sh', -t / -m, -tje, -jut -jat
Old Church Slavonic: -o, -shi, -tu / -mu, -te, -etu -otu

Lithuanian: -u, -i, -a / -ame, -ate, -a

Latin: -ô, -s, -t / -mus, -tis, -nt

Classical Greek: -ô, -eis, -ei / -omen, -ete, -ousin ... -mi, -s, -sin / -men, -te, -asin

Sanskrit: -âmi, -asi, -ati / -âmah, -atha, -anti ... -mi, -si, -ti / -mas, -tha, -anti

Proto-Indo-European: -oH -mi, -si, -ti / -mos, -te, -nti

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lpetrich
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Re: Phoenician tenses.

Post by lpetrich » Fri Feb 15, 2019 2:18 am

Now for Semitic languages. I used Conjugate On The Coolest Verb Conjugator | Cooljugator.com for Hebrew and Arabic, Aramaic Skeleton Grammar, and Akkadian at the Language Gulper. Note that the present/future tense here has both prefixes and suffixes in its conjugation.

Hebrew: - -, t- -, t- -i, y- -, t- - / n- -, t- -i, t- -enah, y- -i, t- -enah
Aramaic: - -, t- -, t- -in, y- -, t- - / n- -, t- -ûn, t- -ân, y- -ûn, y- -ân
Arabic: a- -u, ta- -u, ta- -îna, ya- -u, ta- -u / na- -u, ta- -ûna, ta- -na, ya- -ûna, ya- -na
Akkadian: a- -, ta- -, ta- -i, i- -, i- - / ni- -, ta- -â, ta- -â, i- -û, i- -â

THe persons are 1, 2m, 2f, 3m, 3f -- yes, those verbs distinguish masculine and feminine in their conjugations.

They somewhat resemble each other, but they resemble each other much more than they resemble the Indo-European ones.

Ethan
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Re: Phoenician tenses.

Post by Ethan » Fri Feb 15, 2019 4:28 am

The verb difference between Latin & Greek, specially in regards to the Augment, which is prefixed in Greek
and infixed in Latin, so its important to aknowledge prefix, suffix and infix metathesis and some verbs may contain a preposition or a middle voice or a mood or irregular verbs.

ὥρα, εἶδε - 𐤅𐤓𐤀, 𐤇𐤆‬‬𐤄 "See & Saw" (Irregular)

Middle Voice is the active voice + dative person pronoun and function the same way in Greek and Phoenician.

-μαι (μοι) 𐤋𐤉‬־
-σαι (σοι) 𐤋𐤊‬־
-εται (αυτω) 𐤋𐤅־
-μεθα (με-δε) 𐤋‬𐤍‬𐤉־
-εσθε (σε-δε) 𐤋‬𐤊‬𐤌־
-ονται (αυτοις) 𐤋‬𐤄‬𐤌־

𐤋 functions the same way as τῷ, δ, ad.
ad , prep. with acc. (from the fourth century after Christ written also at ; Etrusc. suf. -a; Osc. az; Umbr. and Old Lat. ar
Last edited by Ethan on Fri Feb 22, 2019 11:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
https://vivliothikiagiasmatos.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/joseph-yahuda-hebrew-is-greek.pdf

Ethan
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Re: Phoenician tenses.

Post by Ethan » Fri Feb 15, 2019 5:11 am

Phoenician usually follows the English order.

ămo = 𐤀‬𐤀𐤄𐤁‬ = ἀγαπ "I love"
amās = 𐤕‬𐤀𐤄𐤁‬ = ἀγαπᾷς "You love"
amat = 𐤉‬‬𐤀𐤄𐤁 = ἀγαπ "He love"

amāre = 𐤌𐤀𐤄𐤁 = ἀγαπᾷν "loved" (infinitive)
amāns = 𐤋‬𐤀𐤄𐤁 = ἀγαπῶν "loving" (participle)

dixi = 𐤅𐤀‬𐤀𐤌‬𐤓 = ἔειπα "I said"
dīxis = 𐤅𐤕‬𐤀𐤌‬𐤓 = ἔειπας "you said"
dīxit = 𐤅𐤉‬𐤀𐤌‬𐤓 = ἔειπε "he said"
dīximus = 𐤅𐤍‬𐤀𐤌‬𐤓 = ἔειπαμεν "we said"
dīxistis = 𐤅𐤕‬‬𐤀𐤌‬𐤓𐤅 = ἔειπατε "Y'all said"
dīxērunt, dīxēre = 𐤅𐤕‬𐤀𐤌‬𐤓𐤍𐤄 ,𐤅𐤉‬𐤀𐤌‬𐤓𐤅 = ἔειπαν "they said"

dīcēns = 𐤋𐤀𐤌‬𐤓 = λέγων "Saying" (participle)
https://vivliothikiagiasmatos.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/joseph-yahuda-hebrew-is-greek.pdf

Ethan
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Re: Phoenician tenses.

Post by Ethan » Fri Feb 15, 2019 6:00 am

ēligō, ἐκλέγω, 𐤀𐤋‬𐤒𐤈‬ "pick out" . (ex + legō), the preposition is suffixed as the 𐤈‬.

ēligō, ἐκλέγω, 𐤀𐤋‬𐤒𐤈
ēligis, ἐκλέγεις, 𐤕‬𐤋‬𐤒𐤈
ēligit, ἐκλέγει, 𐤉𐤋‬𐤒𐤈

ēligēns = ἐκλέγειν = 𐤋𐤋‬𐤒𐤈 (Songs 6:2)
https://vivliothikiagiasmatos.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/joseph-yahuda-hebrew-is-greek.pdf

Ethan
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Re: Phoenician tenses.

Post by Ethan » Fri Feb 15, 2019 9:34 am

𐤀𐤊𐤕‬𐤁 "I write"
- γράφω
- scrībō

𐤌𐤊𐤕‬𐤁
- γράμμα, γράθμα, γράσσμα, γράφμα
- ρ drops out in Phoenician vocabulary, put pops up in 𐤓𐤔‬𐤌‬ (Dan 5:25)

𐤊𐤕‬𐤁𐤀 - γραφὴ (Nominative Feminine Singular)
𐤓𐤔𐤉‬𐤌 - γραφῶν, scrībēns
𐤄𐤓𐤔𐤅‬𐤌 - γεγραμμένον, expressum
𐤅𐤉‬𐤊𐤕‬𐤁 - ἔγραψεν, scripsit
https://vivliothikiagiasmatos.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/joseph-yahuda-hebrew-is-greek.pdf

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lpetrich
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Re: Phoenician tenses.

Post by lpetrich » Tue Feb 26, 2019 3:58 pm

I'd like to see Roman-alphabet transcriptions of everything written in any other writing system. Especially Hebrew and Phoenician and similar.

In any case, I thought of summarizing the verb systems of Latin, Greek, and Hebrew, but I gave up. They are too different. I didn't want to give a detailed introduction to Indo-European and Semitic comparative linguistics.

Ethan
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Re: Phoenician tenses.

Post by Ethan » Thu Feb 28, 2019 9:45 am

If people can read the Roman-alphabet then they can read the parent alphabet, Ancient Latin was written in a more Phoenician like script.
Image
https://vivliothikiagiasmatos.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/joseph-yahuda-hebrew-is-greek.pdf

Ethan
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Re: Phoenician tenses.

Post by Ethan » Thu Feb 28, 2019 10:12 am

The verb system of Phoenician is very simple, easier then Greek and Latin because its very English.

𐤍𐤕 𐤋𐤄𐤌 "Give them" (da eis, δός ἀυτοῖς)
- Them" in Phoenician is "Lem" (𐤋𐤄𐤌) compare with ἀυτοῖς & eis.


𐤅𐤀𐤌𐤓 "I said" (𐤀 = egō) (ἐγών)
𐤅𐤕𐤀𐤌𐤓 "You said" (𐤕 = tū) (τυ)
𐤅𐤉𐤀𐤌𐤓 "He Said" (𐤉 = is )
𐤅𐤍𐤀𐤌𐤓 "We said" (𐤍 = nōs) (ἁμὲς)
𐤅𐤕𐤀𐤌𐤓𐤅 "y'all said" (𐤕.𐤅 = vōs) (ὑμές)
𐤅𐤉𐤀𐤌𐤓𐤅 "They said" (𐤉.𐤅 = eī)

Initial 𐤅 is the augment.
https://vivliothikiagiasmatos.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/joseph-yahuda-hebrew-is-greek.pdf

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