New discovered Roman amulet mixes Christian and pagan imager

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Peter Kirby
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Re: New discovered Roman amulet mixes Christian and pagan im

Post by Peter Kirby » Tue May 12, 2015 2:36 pm

Has anyone presented a formatting or translation of the Greek or an interpretation of the imagery? (To spare us some effort.)
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MrMacSon
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Re: New discovered Roman amulet mixes Christian and pagan im

Post by MrMacSon » Tue May 12, 2015 4:16 pm

Here's the link to the full article - http://archaeology.org/issues/178-1505/ ... ome-amulet

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Re: New discovered Roman amulet mixes Christian and pagan im

Post by Peter Kirby » Tue May 12, 2015 4:25 pm

MrMacSon wrote:Here's the link to the full article - http://archaeology.org/issues/178-1505/ ... ome-amulet
Thanks. :)
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Re: New discovered Roman amulet mixes Christian and pagan im

Post by Tenorikuma » Tue May 12, 2015 4:37 pm

Why would an amulet that mentions Yahweh be "Christian"?

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Re: New discovered Roman amulet mixes Christian and pagan im

Post by Peter Kirby » Tue May 12, 2015 6:32 pm

#1 reason -- pageviews, lol

Here is a scholarly article about separating references to/from Christianity and Judaism in documentary (specifically, epigraphic) sources.

"Jewish Tuna and Christian Fish: Identifying Religious Affiliation in Epigraphic Sources"

http://www.religion.ucsb.edu/faculty/th ... r-Tuna.pdf

There is a not-so-subtle, unfortunate 'hierarchy' implied from the title.... (or maybe I'm just imagining it)
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Re: New discovered Roman amulet mixes Christian and pagan im

Post by StephenGoranson » Wed May 13, 2015 1:22 am

MAGICAL AMULET FROM PAPHOS WITH THE ιαεω- PALINDROME.
By: Śliwa, Joachim. Studies in Ancient Art & Civilization , 2013, Vol. 17, p293-301, 9p

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Re: New discovered Roman amulet mixes Christian and pagan im

Post by dengen » Wed May 13, 2015 7:08 am

Thank you for the proper link to the actual article StephenGoranson. The synopsis from the USA periodical is valuable,--thanks Mr. MacSon-- but, in my opinion, omits a couple of useful points--Why would the USA authors overlook them?

Here's the abstract from the actual article:
professor Joachim Sliwa, from Krakow wrote: Magical amulet from Paphos with the ιαεω- palindrome
During the first excavation campaign of the Paphos Agora Project (3rd July – 6th August 2011), an interesting object was discovered. In Trench II, Area 2 (Room 5), in the upper, late Roman layer, an oval amulet was found (siltstone, 39.41 x 41.32 x 4.81mm). The layer is dated to the 6th century AD, partially due to the presence of ceramic objects of the Cypriot Red Slip Ware type (Hayes form 2, AD 450-550). The obverse of the amulet contains a schematic, simplified figure of a sitting Harpocrates and below the mummy of Osiris in a boat, as well as depictions of animals (a crocodile, a rooster and a snake) and symbolic astrals (a half-moon and a star). On the reverse, however, an eight-line text of the so-called ιαεω- palindrome, consisting of 59 letters of the Greek alphabet, was carved. According to the current state of knowledge, it was translated in the following way: “Yahweh is the bearer of the secret name, the lion of Re secure in his shrine”. Both the depiction and the text carved into the surface of the amulet clearly indicate the influence of the Orient and the context of solar ideas; the object may be dated to the 5th-6th century AD.
dating: found in layer associated with 5th century pottery, does not confirm that date for creation of the amulet, it could be much older....

Yahweh: seems to be not more significant than Osiris, Harpocrates, or Re, in this particular amulet.

Where is the "christian" influence? I fail to comprehend the title of this thread. Which symbol on the amulet suggests Christianity? Is the Greek palindrome supposed to have Christian significance? I do not understand the comment, above, about tuna and fish. This amulet, in my opinion, has nothing to do with either Judaism, or Christianity, so why has anyone referenced a text to distinguish the two? completely non-sequitur, in my opinion, but what would be very helpful, is a link to an elucidation of the significance of this palindrome.

This amulet suggests to me, if no one else, that Yahweh (if that is the proper interpretation of the first letter of the Greek text) had not achieved an acknowledged influence, superior to that of assorted Egyptian deities, in the minds of whoever designed this amulet. Does the image of star and moon, suggest Zoroastrian influence? Is that what Sliwa meant by "context of solar ideas"?

Are these single letters representing words of deities considered similar to nomina sacra, in the sense that everyone living at that time and place, understood that Iota corresponded to Yahweh? Was the concept explained somewhere? Why would pagans use Iota, to represent Yahweh, rather than another Egyptian deity? Is Iota by itself, found in the Septuagint to represent Yahweh? Are there any Greek texts in which the Tetragrammaton is replaced by Iota? Do any of the Greek scrolls from Qumran, represent Yahweh by the single letter Iota?
Iahweh is the bearer of the secret name, the lion of Re secure in his shrine
Why is it some sort of "secret" that Yahweh should be hidden, securely in a shrine?
How is YHWH connected to "the lion of Re"? Is this a reference to the Sphinx? Are those animals on the front of the amulet supposed to represent the zodiac?

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Re: New discovered Roman amulet mixes Christian and pagan im

Post by Peter Kirby » Wed May 13, 2015 10:52 am

Thanks for this post, dengen. (I've fixed the 'bbcode' issue for you, and you shouldn't have any trouble making quotes, etc., from now on.)
This amulet, in my opinion, has nothing to do with either Judaism, or Christianity...
This amulet suggests to me, if no one else, that Yahweh (if that is the proper interpretation of the first letter of the Greek text) had not achieved an acknowledged influence, superior to that of assorted Egyptian deities, in the minds of whoever designed this amulet.
Please do not read my comment as if saying that I believe the amulet had a Jewish or Christian author or owner.
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Re: New discovered Roman amulet mixes Christian and pagan im

Post by MrMacSon » Wed May 13, 2015 1:22 pm

dengen wrote: Where is the "christian" influence? I fail to comprehend the title of this thread. Which symbol on the amulet suggests Christianity? Is the Greek palindrome supposed to have Christian significance? I do not understand the comment, above, about tuna and fish. This amulet, in my opinion, has nothing to do with either Judaism, or Christianity, so why has anyone referenced a text to distinguish the two? completely non-sequitur, in my opinion, but what would be very helpful, is a link to an elucidation of the significance of this palindrome.
I think this reflects our electronic age - Stephan Huller post a link to a twitter post by Archaeology Magazine (saying "A recently discovered Roman amulet mixes Christian and pagan imagery"). I opened it and then the url to the article and posted that url here. But the twitter link and the article are misleading.

I also think that reflects the media and perceived-public interests in proofs of [early] Christianity. As is usually the case, there's more to these stories.

Comments like yours help.

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