What is the theological meaning of Jesus dying on 15 Nissan?

[Michael BG]

christianityboard topic a-day-begins-at-sunrise

An argument based on a reading of Genesis is not going to convince me, especially when the author writes, “Do not be impressed or swayed if someone shows you that the Midrash or the entire Talmud or some ancient document or engraved stone ... or some other extra Biblical source shows that a day begins at sundown. The Bible must be our authority.” http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/ ... t-sunrise/

If you look up the OT chapters verses on the feasts in Nisan you will see that the passover/14th is clearly on a friday. (Exod 12 & 13; Lev 23.)

Exod 12:6, 8
“and you shall keep it until the fourteenth day of this month, when the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill their lambs in the evening.”
“They shall eat the flesh that night, roasted; with unleavened bread and bitter herbs they shall eat it.”
This seems to state that the lambs will be killed on 14th Nissan (that is preparation day) and eaten once the Sun has gone down.

Exod 12:15a, 18
“ Seven days you shall eat unleavened bread;
“In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month at evening, you shall eat unleavened bread, and so until the twenty-first day of the month at evening.”
Verse 18 seems to imply that the Feast of Unleavened Bread is from the 14th until 21st but this is 8 days and it has to be 7 (according to verse 15a). If the day starts in the evening then the first evening is 15th and then there are 7 evenings.

Lev 23:5-6
“In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month in the evening, is the LORD's passover.
“And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the feast of unleavened bread to the LORD; seven days you shall eat unleavened bread.
This also has the Passover meal on the evening of 14th Nissan and then seven days of “unleavened bread”.

Therefore it seems to me that my understanding of Passover and the Feast of Unleavened Bread agrees with Rick (zeke25).

I can’t see anything about days of the week.

[Japhethite]

it won't let me post anything longer than 1 sentence.

[Japhethite]

Sorry but there seems some sort of confusion between us?
What i posted agrees with Rick/Zeke (Jesus died on thu 13th, passover fri 14th, sat/sabbath 15th) (day begins at sunrise). The first post here saying Jesus died on same day as passover (14th) or on the 15th doesn't agree with Rick/Zeke.

[Japhethite]

Leviticus 23 says passover is 14th [fri]; and says 1st of unleavened bread is on 15th [sat] for 7 days; and says 1st fruits is [sun] day after sabbath/sat [16th, as Oxford concordence says].

Exodus 12 says passover is on 14th. (The "preparation" day in brackets in your own comment is unknonwn/new to me.) [The sun goes down from 12 noon to dusk.]
It does mention unleavenened in evening of 14th, but it also says the 1st of unleavened is on the day they came out of Egypt [15th].
There is also confusion there because it implies they didn't have time to leaven their bread which would be a break.

[Japhethite]

Taking all the biblical references together there were two "unleavened bread" days 14th and 15th, the 7 [not 8] days [not eves/nights] goes from 15th-21st. Otherwise it is a contradiction to say the "14th" day end and "15th" day begining are same day and end/start of 2 days overlap.

The NT gospels verses i posted clearly imply passover was day [not evening] after Jesus died, unless as you imply the preparation and passover are same day or unless the day begins at evening.

Everything only fits together in the sceanrio given in post 2, as i found from zeke's and my own info/study before and after.

[Japhethite]

Who is more reliable Genesis/OT [& NT] or later a.d. Rabbinic? All humans are fallible including a.d. Jews and a.d. Christians.
I was not convinced by zeke/rick saying what you quoted but by seeing that the problem is if day begings at evening then the 1st day in Genesis the first evening is infinite length, plus other reasons/evidences that it fits with everything i know from history/world that it makes more sense the day begining at sunrise than sunset. The bible always says in the order/way-around "day and night". When do people sing "this is the day..." song?

This is ridiculous having to cut posts up into tiny mulitple posts, it refuses to let me post any full/"long" posts.

[Peter Kirby]

it won't let me post anything longer than 1 sentence.

This is ridiculous having to cut posts up into tiny mulitple posts, it refuses to let me post any full/"long" posts.

Pics or it didn't happen.

[Japhethite]

It did happen, both times when i tried to reply it refused umpteen times until i only posted small bits. No pictures. Something is not right, and that you do not have any objective interest / concern makes me paranoid.

[Japhethite]

ps to Michael, JC death was for 3 days and 3 nights. And, what is the rabbins basis / authority / reason for sunset start of day.

[Michael BG]

Sorry but there seems some sort of confusion between us?
What i posted agrees with Rick/Zeke (Jesus died on thu 13th, passover fri 14th, sat/sabbath 15th) (day begins at sunrise). The first post here saying Jesus died on same day as passover (14th) or on the 15th doesn't agree with Rick/Zeke.

I agree there is some sort of confusion between us.

Leviticus 23 says passover is 14th [fri]; and says 1st of unleavened bread is on 15th [sat] for 7 days; and says 1st fruits is [sun] day after sabbath/sat [16th, as Oxford concordence says].

Exodus 12 says passover is on 14th. (The "preparation" day in brackets in your own comment is unknonwn/new to me.) [The sun goes down from 12 noon to dusk.]
It does mention unleavenened in evening of 14th, but it also says the 1st of unleavened is on the day they came out of Egypt [15th].
There is also confusion there because it implies they didn't have time to leaven their bread which would be a break.

As I have already said Lev 23 does not have any reference to Friday. Please can you confirm that your reference to days is with reference to Jesus’ death and not the Jewish calendar which applies every year?

The day of preparation is the day that the lambs are slaughtered (Exod 12:6, - 14th Nissan). I use the term day because it would not be possible for all the lambs to be slaughtered in the evening in Jerusalem in the time of Jesus.

It does not matter what we call the evening of the day that we both recognise as 14th Nissan as we both agree that the Jews would be following the procedure set out in Exod 12:6, 8 and would be eating the Passover meal at that time.

The NT gospels verses i posted clearly imply passover was day [not evening] after Jesus died, unless as you imply the preparation and passover are same day or unless the day begins at evening.

Mk 14:12 - And on the first day of Unleavened Bread, when they sacrificed the passover lamb, his disciples said to him, "Where will you have us go and prepare for you to eat the passover?"

From this it is clear that the Last Supper is the Passover (seder) meal for Mark. It has been suggested that this along with “and the Sabbath” in Mk 15:42 is Marcan redaction. Your Lucan quote is likely based on Mark and your Matthean one is likely to be either Matthew’s own creation or a created tradition. Your other quotes support my position that John has Jesus killed on the 14th Nissan. Therefore it seems reasonable to ask has anyone come across theological reasons why Mark would have changed the tradition to move the day Jesus died to 15th Nissan?