Several of your own very, very specific beliefs about the subject are no less grounded in reality, but it doesn't seem to be a fruitful discussion to press the issue, regardless of how trivial or how seemingly-clear the leap of speculation taken may be.Bernard Muller wrote:But looking at the evidence, starting by Plato, the origin of it, any fantasies about Atlantis fall to the ground very quickly.
Most of you overarching narrative ideas are indeed too mundane to fall into the same category of pablum often trotted out for book sales, so you do get points for that, sure.
Your work is most directly comparable to the 19th century lives of Jesus, like that by Renan, that were rationally dismantled for being overstretched and unscientific with the efforts of David Strauss and Albert Schweitzer. Most of it was pretty vapid, gospel-text-quoting, armchair psychologizing fare ... and completely impossible to demonstrate.
You overplay your supposed hand, consistently. I guess I could wade in and quote an example.Where do you think I speculate without justifying my conclusions? A speculation ceases to be just that if you can "demonstrate" with evidence it is probably true.
So I am supposed to believe that Jesus' father was a carpenter... why, exactly? Why is it oh so very probable?1.2.4 Joseph's occupation and social status:
His father was a carpenter, according to Mt13:55. The Greek word for 'carpenter' is 'tekton' and can have three different main meanings, according to Strong:
- A worker in wood, a carpenter, joiner, builder
- Any craftsman, or workman
- A planner, contriver, plotter
Justin Martyr, a 2nd century Christian, wrote:
Trypho LXXXVIII "And when Jesus came to the Jordan, He was considered to be the son of Joseph the carpenter; ... making ploughs and yokes ...)"
Could Joseph have been a well-off master builder?
That would be denied by him & his family living in a small hilly village, and not in the nearby city of Sepphoris or even, less than two miles down the road, the walled town of Japha (mentioned in Josephus' Life, 45 & Wars, III, VII, 31).
"Luke" must have known Joseph & Mary were poor. In Lk2:24, the normal offering, a lamb, is not mentioned, just "a pair of doves or two young pigeons", according to:
Lev12:8 "... If she cannot afford a lamb, she is to bring two doves or two young pigeons ..."
"Next came the Artisans, about 5 percent of the population [in the Roman empire], below the Peasants in social class because they were usually recruited and replenished from its dispossessed members.
Beneath them were the Degraded and Expendable classes - the former with origins, occupations, or conditions rendering them outcasts; the latter, maybe as much as 10 percent of the population, ranging from beggars and outlaws to hustlers, day laborers, and slaves.
If Jesus was a carpenter [according to Mk6:3], therefore, he belonged to the Artisan class, that group pushed into the dangerous space between Peasants and Degradeds or Expendables."
John Dominic Crossan, Jesus: A Revolutionary Biography (1994)
Okay. So a few quotes. Great.
Just the first thing I saw to comment on in the first link I clicked. And by far the most common form of 'demonstrated to be probable' argument on the site.