outhouse wrote:But the origins of Christianity are FACTUAL and questions like yours are admission that you don't have a clue what your debating here.
A lack of understanding is, I guess, one reason why a forum member might ask a question.
Secondly, of course there is no doubt the origins of Christianity are FACTUAL - the question is whether we are in possession of those facts. As far as the development of 1st century Christianity goes, I'd contend that we know very little. We don't know where the gospels were written, for what purpose, or anything of substance about the communities that produced them, or the origins of the oral and/or written traditions that underpin them. There is enough "wiggle room" for example, to argue such polar opposite views as Jesus being a completely fictional character, to the gospels being largely based on the actual teachings of a 1st century Jewish messianic preacher. But for some reason, you think the origins of Christianity are a closed book, done and dusted, nothing further to learn here. Move along.
I could flood this board with support for your contention. See thread Know Rome - Know Jesus for one.
Perhaps it is understandable that Rome used propaganda - is there any doubt/ And they like Lao Tzu knew brainwashing was the most important battle to be won.
Then we can treat the investigation as if it was a murder - it was (of Course) far more than murder and was an attempt at genocide. There are many Rabbinical authors who know Rome tried to blame the Jews for doing what Rome did - crucifixion in that region of their Empire because it was the most terrible local torture and form of execution - Rome did other things in other regions. But always Rome did what it could to buy off local authorities. To that end we had the Roman Minister of Mines sitting on the Sanhedrin (J of A) and the assassin Paul/Saul who as well as stoning Stephan is implicated in the attempt on James (The Righteous and older brother of Yeshua). Paul claimed to be a Roman citizen and more importantly a Benjaminite. If he was that he was a lot like J of A). He also claimed to have attended the Pharisaic school of Gamaliel (Golden Rule contributor) but we know that is a lie because we have the school records.
In a murder investigation you look for motive - does Rome like Power and money? Did a smaller number of citizens share in the spoils - and those who ran the show called The Holy Roman Empire got more money and power than any organization this earth has ever seen.
Josephus sold out, Philo was bought and even Herod was beholden to Rome. It is possible to argue Judas was the only TRUE believer in Jesus as the son of God because he wanted God to get involved and throw the Romans out of his country.
As to government set-ups to hide what they are doing, I have no doubt they plant mummies, bodies, do skits, projections and anything else that might work. In one incredible case the CIA paid the parents of Beth Goobie to allow them to do genital electrification and cause disassociation in the fetus before birth. I hope it is just a myth but I met a top Mercenary Colonel on layover in Dover, England who was involved with a woman fitting Beth Goobie's description some 15 years before I read her story in Paranoia Magazine. After ten years of therapy which stopped her from allowing the suicide activation triggers you see in the movie Conspiracy Theory, she won the Governor General's award for writing children's stories.
I have lots of proof the CIA uses alters, concubinage, couriers, prostitution and more. They had created each of these personalities in her from birth. I have a good case for Colonel Edward Mandell House doing this to "RUN" Woodrow Wilson. I think the Manchurian Candidate Movies are fact based and Shrub was used at Averill Harriman's Jupiter Island complex to that end. He was developed to be perfect at the Standard Operating Procedure of Plausible Deniability. When he says "I don't know." He is believable.
Religion as Fukayama says in his book The End of History and the Last Man has always been a social engineers tool. He was congratulated by Clinton as he moved up the ladder from US Policy Manager to the Rand Corporation.
Hitler learned how to wend a wonderful charm over his people. It was not allowed for the defense of the criminals at Nuremberg to explain the use of religion and occult means but in the end they were all let go with a lot less than they were charged with. My father was at Nuremberg with the Judge Advocate.
Here is a little quote from Hitler to give some insight into how he and Mussolini worked with the Vatican. "Secular schools can never be tolerated because such schools have no religious instruction, and a general moral instruction without a religious foundation is built on air; consequently, all character training and religion must be derived from faith... we need believing people." [Adolf Hitler, April 26, 1933, from a speech made during negotiations leading to the Nazi-Vatican Concordant of 1933]
Was Ivan Illich ex-communicated for trying to stop schooling people through the present brainwashing of his era - which still is going on.
The more things change - the more they remain the same. In my lifetime I heard the phrase "They killed our Savior!" It was directed at the Jews who did not crucify Jesus (If he was - I know how he knew how to appear dead.). Then the liar Paul sees him after he left town or went to Heaven - Want some swamp land at a good price?