Jesus alive AFTER Pontius Pilate left Judea??

[MrMacSon]

...If you read old texts carefully every now and then some truth slips through the Christian censors. In this case they missed editing a statement by the church father Epiphanius who wrote that Jesus brother James died in AD 62 after having been head of the church for twenty-four years. It looks an innocent enough statement in itself, which is why it has slipped through the editing process. But take twenty-four from sixty-two and it gives you the key date of AD 38. It is accepted that James took over the leadership after Jesus’ death, but now it appears that that date is most likely AD 38.

Finally, in AD 325 at the first Ecumenical Council, the Church fathers produced the Nicene Creed, which, is central to all forms of Christianity. The creed begins with, “We believe in one God the father….etc etc”. But fifty years later, in Constantinople in AD 381, the Council met again and added something new to the creed. It was this: ‘He was crucified for us under Pontius Pilate’

So some 350 years after the events, the crucifixion by Pilate suddenly became matters of faith ...

http://www.juliandoyle.info/www.juliand ... ODDLE.html

... events described by Josephus, are impossible to fit into the Bible timeline as presented above. ... working backwards we have:

• 37 (April) Vitellius stops attack on King Aretas after news from Rome.
  37 (March) Tiberius dies.
  37 Tiberius orders Vitellius into battle.
  36 King Aretas destroys Herod’s army
  35 John the Baptist beheaded
  35 John the Baptist arrested
  35 Herod divorces first wife and marries Herodias
  34 Philip dies.
  29 John the Baptist starts baptizing.

Given that Jesus’ mission was for two years after the Baptist death in 35, this scenario has Jesus alive till at least AD 37! The only way to solve the problem is to advance the divorce of Herod and his marriage to Herodias to before John began baptising in AD 29. That of course has the problem that King Aretas attacks Herod eight years after the rejection of his daughter ...

if Jesus preached for a couple of years after the death of John, it would take us to around AD 38, well after the date Pilate left Judea. This creates a new timeline where many of my dates are confirmed, while others can only be out by at the most six months to a year.

• AD 26 Pilate arrives in Judea. [confirmed]
  AD 34 Philip dies. [confirmed]
  AD 34 Herod divorces his first wife. She returns to King Aretas.
  AD 34/35 Herod marries Herodias.
  AD 34/35 The Baptist ‘incessantly’ complains about the marriage.
  AD 34/35 Herod arrests the Baptist.
  AD 35 Lucius Vitellius becomes legate of Syria. [confirmed]
  AD 35 Herod kills the Baptist. (Could be before the above)
  AD 35/36 Aretas goes to war (Now within a year of the divorce)
  AD 35/36 Vitellius sacks Pontius Pilate who leaves Judea [confirmed]
  AD 37 Tiberius dies (March) [confirmed]
  AD 37 Vitellius goes to arrest King Aretas but stops when news arrives.
  AD 37 Vitellius arrives back in Jerusalem to be welcomed by cheering crowds;
  • he then cancels certain taxes and allows the Judean Priests custody over
    their own vestments, giving a period of peace [confirmed]
  AD 37-38 In this period of peace Jesus preaches and performs miracles.
  AD 38 Jesus dies?

[Bernard Muller]

37 (April) Vitellius stops attack on King Aretas after news from Rome.
37 (March) Tiberius dies.
37 Tiberius orders Vitellius into battle.
36 King Aretas destroys Herod’s army
35 John the Baptist beheaded
35 John the Baptist arrested
35 Herod divorces first wife and marries Herodias
34 Philip dies.
29 John the Baptist starts baptizing.

According to my studies, I have:
26 Pilate arrives in Judea in the fall.
26 Pilate withdraws his army from Jerusalem following peaceful protest by Jews.
27 John the Baptist becomes popular & baptizes in the spring.
27 John the Baptist is arrested (late spring).
27 Herod divorces first wife and marries Herodias.
27 John the Baptist is executed (summer).
27 Jesus' "ministry" occurs then (summer to fall).
28 Jesus is arrested and crucified (early spring).
28?-29? Pilate retaliates violently when some Jews insulted him during a mass protest.
33-34 Philip dies.
35 Hellenist members in the Church of Jerusalem are persecuted or flee.
35 Paul converts to proto-Christianity.
36 King Aretas destroys Herod’s army.
36 Tiberius orders Vitellius into battle.
37 (March) Tiberius dies.
50 Paul starts his "ministry" as the head man (without Barnabas).
52 James gains leadership of the Church of Jerusalem (after the "council").
57 Paul is arrested in Jerusalem in the spring.
62 James dies.

Justifying webpages to be supplied on demand

Cordially, Bernard

[MrMacSon]

OK, let's look at Doyle's final date-list and put it side-by-side with Bernard's. Agreement signaled by same icons -

• It should be noted that Doyle relies on 'Slavonic Josephus' (see below)

Doyle' dateline

Bernard's dateline

AD 26 Pilate arrives in Judea. [confirmed] AD 34 Philip dies. [confirmed] AD 34 Herod divorces his first wife. She returns to King Aretas. AD 34/35 Herod marries Herodias. AD 34/35 The Baptist ‘incessantly’ complains about the marriage. AD 34/35 Herod arrests the Baptist. AD 35 Lucius Vitellius becomes legate of Syria. [confirmed] AD 35 Herod kills the Baptist. (Could be before the above) AD 35/36 Aretas goes to war (Now within a year of the divorce) AD 35/36 Vitellius sacks Pontius Pilate who leaves Judea [confirmed] AD 37 Tiberius dies (March) [confirmed] AD 37 Vitellius goes to arrest King Aretas but stops when news arrives. AD 37 Vitellius arrives back in Jerusalem to be welcomed by cheering crowds; he then cancels certain taxes and allows the Judean Priests custody over their own vestments, giving a period of peace [confirmed] AD 37-38 In this period of peace Jesus preaches and performs miracles. AD 38 Jesus dies?

26 Pilate arrives in Judea in the fall. 26 Pilate withdraws his army from Jerusalem following peaceful protest by Jews. 27 John the Baptist becomes popular & baptizes in the spring. 27 John the Baptist is arrested (late spring). 27 Herod divorces first wife and marries Herodias. 27 John the Baptist is executed (summer). 27 Jesus' "ministry" occurs then (summer to fall). 28 Jesus is arrested and crucified (early spring). 28?-29? Pilate retaliates violently when some Jews insulted him during a mass protest. 33-34 Philip dies. 35 Hellenist members in the Church of Jerusalem are persecuted or flee. 35 Paul converts to proto-Christianity. 36 King Aretas destroys Herod’s army. 36 Tiberius orders Vitellius into battle. 37 (March) Tiberius dies. 50 Paul starts his "ministry" as the head man (without Barnabas). 52 James gains leadership of the Church of Jerusalem (after the "council"). 57 Paul is arrested in Jerusalem in the spring. 62 James dies.

['Slavonic Josephus'] clearly states that Philip died just after John interprets his dream; so John is still alive in AD 34. You could argue that Josephus got the timing of the dream interpretation wrong, exaggerating the connection between the dream and the death. That is very possible and in fact I cannot believe the story as, at best, it must be hearsay evidence which is unreliable, but that is not the crucial bit because after Philip dies comes this:

• ‘And Herod, his brother, took his wife Herodias. And because of her all the doctors of the Law abhorred him, but durst not accuse him before his face. But only that one, whom they called a wild man, came to him in anger and spake: "Why hast thou taken the wife of thy brother? As thy brother hath died a death void of pity, thou too wilt be reaped off by the heavenly sickle…. Now when Herod heard [this], he was filled with wrath and commanded that they should beat him and drive him away. But he accused Herod incessantly wherever he found him, and right up to the time when Herod put him under arrest and gave orders to slay him.’ (Slavonic Josephus)

So clearly the marriage between Herod and Herodias is after Philip’s death. And if we take the word ‘incessantly’ at face value, we have the Baptist giving Herod a hard time for several years, or at least quite a bit after Phillip’s death in AD 34. Even after Herod decides to deal with John, in all versions of the story, he does not kill him right away but imprisons him.

So I think we can be pretty sure that John was alive well past the supposed date of Jesus’ crucifixion. All we need to do now is prove the Bible is correct and that Jesus did not start his ministry till after the Baptist’s death, in 35.

• ‘King Herod heard about this, for Jesus’ name had become well known. Some were saying, ‘John the Baptist has been raised from the dead, and that is why miraculous powers are at work in him….’But when Herod heard this, he said, ‘John, whom I beheaded, has been raised from the dead!’ (Mark 6:14)

So Herod thinks Jesus is the resurrected John, which 'clearly' makes Jesus alive after the Baptist’s death. There are many other quotes that say the same, one even by Jesus himself:

• “From the days of John the Baptist until now, the kingdom of heaven has been subjected to violence.” (Mat 11:12)

Here Jesus is clearly talking about a person who has died some time ago. So, if Jesus preached for a couple of years after the death of John, it would take us to around AD 38, well after the date Pilate left Judea.

http://www.juliandoyle.info/www.juliand ... ODDLE.html

[andrewcriddle]

...If you read old texts carefully every now and then some truth slips through the Christian censors. In this case they missed editing a statement by the church father Epiphanius who wrote that Jesus brother James died in AD 62 after having been head of the church for twenty-four years. It looks an innocent enough statement in itself, which is why it has slipped through the editing process. But take twenty-four from sixty-two and it gives you the key date of AD 38. It is accepted that James took over the leadership after Jesus’ death, but now it appears that that date is most likely AD 38.

Finally, in AD 325 at the first Ecumenical Council, the Church fathers produced the Nicene Creed, which, is central to all forms of Christianity. The creed begins with, “We believe in one God the father….etc etc”. But fifty years later, in Constantinople in AD 381, the Council met again and added something new to the creed. It was this: ‘He was crucified for us under Pontius Pilate’

So some 350 years after the events, the crucifixion by Pilate suddenly became matters of faith ...

http://www.juliandoyle.info/www.juliand ... ODDLE.html

... events described by Josephus, are impossible to fit into the Bible timeline as presented above. ... working backwards we have:

• 37 (April) Vitellius stops attack on King Aretas after news from Rome.
  37 (March) Tiberius dies.
  37 Tiberius orders Vitellius into battle.
  36 King Aretas destroys Herod’s army
  35 John the Baptist beheaded
  35 John the Baptist arrested
  35 Herod divorces first wife and marries Herodias
  34 Philip dies.
  29 John the Baptist starts baptizing.

Given that Jesus’ mission was for two years after the Baptist death in 35, this scenario has Jesus alive till at least AD 37! The only way to solve the problem is to advance the divorce of Herod and his marriage to Herodias to before John began baptising in AD 29. That of course has the problem that King Aretas attacks Herod eight years after the rejection of his daughter ...

if Jesus preached for a couple of years after the death of John, it would take us to around AD 38, well after the date Pilate left Judea. This creates a new timeline where many of my dates are confirmed, while others can only be out by at the most six months to a year.

• AD 26 Pilate arrives in Judea. [confirmed]
  AD 34 Philip dies. [confirmed]
  AD 34 Herod divorces his first wife. She returns to King Aretas.
  AD 34/35 Herod marries Herodias.
  AD 34/35 The Baptist ‘incessantly’ complains about the marriage.
  AD 34/35 Herod arrests the Baptist.
  AD 35 Lucius Vitellius becomes legate of Syria. [confirmed]
  AD 35 Herod kills the Baptist. (Could be before the above)
  AD 35/36 Aretas goes to war (Now within a year of the divorce)
  AD 35/36 Vitellius sacks Pontius Pilate who leaves Judea [confirmed]
  AD 37 Tiberius dies (March) [confirmed]
  AD 37 Vitellius goes to arrest King Aretas but stops when news arrives.
  AD 37 Vitellius arrives back in Jerusalem to be welcomed by cheering crowds;
  • he then cancels certain taxes and allows the Judean Priests custody over
    their own vestments, giving a period of peace [confirmed]
  AD 37-38 In this period of peace Jesus preaches and performs miracles.
  AD 38 Jesus dies?

Strictly speaking Epiphanius only says that James died roughly 24 years after the ascension of Jesus.
See https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=tKt ... ur&f=false
Epiphanius may have dated the death of James earlier than 62 CE.

Andrew Criddle