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Snakes

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Snakes

Postby Clive » Mon May 02, 2016 11:56 am

The discussions about Acts reminded me of something acts 28

[quote]
…2The natives showed us extraordinary kindness; for because of the rain that had set in and because of the cold, they kindled a fire and received us all. 3But when Paul had gathered a bundle of sticks and laid them on the fire, a viper came out because of the heat and fastened itself on his hand. 4When the natives saw the creature hanging from his hand, they began saying to one another, "Undoubtedly this man is a murderer, and though he has been saved from the sea, justice has not allow[\quote]

More myth, joining Paul to the garden of Eden, also known as paradise?
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Re: Snakes

Postby Ben C. Smith » Mon May 02, 2016 12:02 pm

Does every snake have to connect to the Garden of Eden? Or is there something in particular in this passage that reminds you of Eden?
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Re: Snakes

Postby Clive » Mon May 02, 2016 12:23 pm

He lived - the one in Eden brought death.

The reference about surviving the storm at sea .

The fire.
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Re: Snakes

Postby Clive » Mon May 02, 2016 12:32 pm

And commentaries do cross reference Jonah!
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Re: Snakes

Postby Ben C. Smith » Mon May 02, 2016 12:39 pm

Clive wrote:And commentaries do cross reference Jonah!


Yes, Jonah I can see.

But the wood fire does not remind me of flaming swords; nor does surviving a storm at sea remind me of anything in Eden; nor does the "miracle" of escaping death remind me of Eden any more than all references to escaping death will be reminiscent of the most famous story detailing the origins of death.
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Re: Snakes

Postby Clive » Mon May 02, 2016 1:07 pm

It's the whole sequence not all from Genesis , snake bite is one item. Homer's odyssey, Paul defeating death by snake, Jonah, justice, the four elements.

It is another mythological tale of salvation and new beginnings. What is interesting how the clear motif of Paul as Christ has been missed!
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Re: Snakes

Postby outhouse » Mon May 02, 2016 3:55 pm

Clive wrote:More myth, joining Paul to the garden of Eden, also known as paradise?



Ya its the same context :facepalm:


Come on dude. The text in Genesis does not mention a damned Viper, or even a snake.
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Re: Snakes

Postby outhouse » Mon May 02, 2016 3:58 pm

Clive wrote: What is interesting how the clear motif of Paul as Christ has been missed!



Its missed because no one is using that much imagination to assume such falsely.

In no way does Paul build his divinity equal with Jesus, the context of his text is to build his authority as a apostle, he wanted nothing more then to be looked at as one. And the authors go out of their way to build such a character
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Re: Snakes

Postby neilgodfrey » Mon May 02, 2016 8:06 pm

Clive wrote:It's the whole sequence not all from Genesis , snake bite is one item. Homer's odyssey, Paul defeating death by snake, Jonah, justice, the four elements.

It is another mythological tale of salvation and new beginnings. What is interesting how the clear motif of Paul as Christ has been missed!


This got me thinking about how we decide what is a real set of allusions.

I don't think we are falling into the parallelomania trap here because we can expect the author of Acts to be aware of the Genesis motifs and to be willing to deploy them if they served his purposes.

Where I think the parallels fail is that they add nothing to the explanatory power of the Acts' scenario and narrative. If we interpret Paul's experience through Genesis then what is added to the meaning of the narrative of Paul and Acts overall? I see nothing more than any potential parallels as being a clever but ultimately pointless cameo. This is not least because the Acts scene appears some time before the end of Acts and we'd expect a commentary on Genesis 1-2 to be found at the end of Acts, or at least whatever did appear at the end of Acts was somehow closely tied with that snake episode.

I think the trap here is to go with word associations in the absence of pre-defined criteria for parallels. It would be interesting to find some of the standard criteria used -- e.g. MacDonald's, Brodie's, Allison's... -- and test each allusion against such a set.
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Re: Snakes

Postby Clive » Tue May 03, 2016 12:19 am

I understood that ancient story tellers did not actually know the story off by heart, but used triggers that they they then filled in - the palace memory system. I get the impression that this little story is a reinforcing, reminding repeating story, much like a chorus repeating a few key lines but slightly differently.

To understand this a detailed look at all the rhythms in Acts is needed.

But I formally assert Paul was not bitten by a snake on the island of honey.

(Wasn't Atlantis an island?)
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