Was the Fourfold Gospel Directed at the Followers of Tatian?

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Secret Alias
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Was the Fourfold Gospel Directed at the Followers of Tatian?

Post by Secret Alias »

I made the following post in KK's thread and think that it might be useful to start a new thread as I dissect some of the ideas further (and not harm the other thread). I color coded the various references there to the fourfold gospel to make the argument that the gospel of Mark may have original contained the Paraclete reference - posting.php?mode=quote&f=3&p=55295

I'd like to turn around KK's original post and ask is what Irenaeus said HIS OWN (i.e. Irenaeus's) methodology for grouping material common to longer gospels into MaRKaH (MARK) - i.e. Matthew, maRk, luKe and JoHn)
It is not possible that the Gospels can be either more or fewer in number than they are. For, since there are four zones of the world in which we live, and four principal winds, while the Church is scattered throughout all the world, and the "pillar and ground" of the Church is the Gospel and the spirit of life; it is fitting that she should have four pillars, breathing out immortality on every side, and vivifying men afresh. From which fact, it is evident that the Word, the Artificer of all, He that sitteth upon the cherubim, and contains all things, He who was manifested to men, has given us the Gospel under four aspects, but bound together by one Spirit. As also David says, when entreating His manifestation, "Thou that sittest between the cherubim, shine forth." For the cherubim, too, were four-faced, and their faces were images of the dispensation of the Son of God. For, it says, "The first living creature was like a lion," symbolizing His effectual working, His leadership, and royal power; the second was like a calf, signifying [His] sacrificial and sacerdotal order; but "the third had, as it were, the face as of a man,"--an evident description of His advent as a human being; "the fourth was like a flying eagle," pointing out the gift of the Spirit hovering with His wings over the Church. And therefore the Gospels are in accord with these things, among which Christ Jesus is seated. For that according to John relates His original, effectual, and glorious generation from the Father, thus declaring, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." Also, "all things were made by Him, and without Him was nothing made." For this reason, too, is that Gospel full of all confidence, for such is His person. But that according to Luke, taking up [His] priestly character, commenced with Zacharias the priest offering sacrifice to God. For now was made ready the fatted calf, about to be immolated for the finding again of the younger son. Matthew, again, relates His generation as a man, saying, "The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham;"(11) and also, "The birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise." This, then, is the Gospel of His humanity;(12) for which reason it is, too, that [the character of] a humble and meek man is kept up through the whole Gospel. Mark, on the other hand, commences with [a reference to] the prophetical spirit coming down from on high to men, saying, "The beginning of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, as it is written in Esaias the prophet,"--pointing to the winged aspect of the Gospel; and on this account he made a compendious and cursory narrative, for such is the prophetical character.

And the Word of God Himself used to converse with the ante-Mosaic patriarchs, in accordance with His divinity and glory; but for those under the law he instituted a sacerdotal and liturgical service.(1) Afterwards, being made man for us, He sent the gift of the celestial Spirit over all the earth, protecting us with His wings. Such, then, as was the course followed by the Son of God, so was also the form of the living creatures; and such as was the form of the living creatures, so was also the character of the Gospel.(2) For the living creatures are quadriform, and the Gospel is quadriform, as is also the course followed by the Lord. For this reason were four principal (kaqolikai) covenants given to the human race: one, prior to the deluge, under Adam; the second, that after the deluge, under Noah; the third, the giving of the law, under Moses; the fourth, that which renovates man, and sums up all things in itself by means of the Gospel, raising and bearing men upon its wings into the heavenly kingdom.
And he immediately goes on to say:
These things being so, all who destroy the form of the Gospel are vain, unlearned, and also audacious; those, [I mean,] who represent the aspects of the Gospel as being either more in number than as aforesaid, or, on the other hand, fewer. The former class [do so], that they may seem to have discovered more than is of the truth; the latter, that they may set the dispensations of God aside. For Marcion, rejecting the entire Gospel, yea rather, cutting himself off from the Gospel, boasts that he has part in the [blessings of] the Gospel. Others, again, that they may set at nought the gift of the Spirit, which in the latter times has been, by the good pleasure of the Father, poured out upon the human race, do not admit that aspect presented by John's Gospel, in which the Lord promised that He would send the Paraclete; but set aside at once both the Gospel and the prophetic Spirit. Wretched men indeed! who wish to be pseudo- prophets, forsooth, but who set aside the gift of prophecy from the Church; acting like those who, on account of such as come in hypocrisy, hold themselves aloof from the communion of the brethren. We must conclude, moreover, that these men can not admit the Apostle Paul either. For, in his Epistle to the Corinthians, he speaks expressly of prophetical gifts, and recognises men and women prophesying in the Church. Sinning, therefore, in all these particulars, against the Spirit of God, they fall into the irremissible sin. But those who are from Valentinus, being, on the other hand, altogether reckless, while they put forth their own compositions, boast that they possess more Gospels than there really are. Indeed, they have arrived at such a pitch of audacity, as to entitle their comparatively recent writing "the Gospel of Truth," though it agrees in nothing with the Gospels of the Apostles, so that they have really no Gospel which is not full of blasphemy. For if what they have published is the Gospel of truth, and yet is totally unlike those which have been handed down to us from the apostles, any who please may learn, as is shown from the Scriptures themselves, that that which has been handed down from the apostles can no longer be reckoned the Gospel of truth. But that these Gospels alone are true and reliable, and admit neither an increase nor diminution of the aforesaid number, I have proved by so many and such [arguments]. For, since God made all things in due proportion and adaptation, it was fit also that the outward aspect of the Gospel should be well arranged and harmonized. The opinion of those men, therefore, who handed the Gospel down to us, having been investigated, from their very fountainheads, let us proceed also to the remaining apostles, and inquire into their doctrine with regard to God; then, in due course we shall listen to the very words of the Lord.
One thing that I noticed this time reading this passage is that Irenaeus's natural order would seem to imply the last juxtaposition between the Encratites who use proto-Matthew and a group who use Mark. This is most puzzling. If you read what is said about Mark in the first paragraph about the gospel of Mark it would make sense that Irenaeus would connect this with the Paraclete given the fact that Matthew is identified as the incarnation (in other words if John takes it's starting point from Jesus in heaven and Luke with the priesthood established by God and Matthew the incarnation it would only follow that Mark represents the Paraclete because the Paraclete comes after Jesus and the fact that people are only redeemed by believing in the resurrection and thus after the Passion.

The difficulty is that the Paraclete only appears as a concept in John now. So there is a reference (perhaps added later) where 'the aspect of the Paraclete' is mentioned.

Moreover Irenaeus's consistent point about Mark is that the heretics separate 'Jesus' and 'Christ' through it. As Ehrman notes this might sound like an adoptionist understanding of the baptism but Irenaeus doesn't mention that. Instead he references something which isn't in Mark any more at least the idea that Christ stood watching while Jesus suffered on the Cross. While it is important to note that this alone would suggest that Irenaeus's Mark did not resemble our surviving text it is also worth noting that in Adv Haer 4.2 Irenaeus identifies another passage as being in Mark which does not currently appear in Mark.

Indeed Irenaeus goes out of his way to cite the beginning of Mark and the end of Mark (the long ending) as a way of confirming to us that (a) Mark did not separate Jesus and Christ as its original users (the heretics) suggested and (b) to reject the inferences from the long gospel of Mark which mentioned the Paraclete that the Paraclete was Christ and Jesus a distinct being. Once again it has to be assumed (unless someone can come up with a better answer) then that current text of Adversus Haereses has gone under a lot of revision. In its original form the users of Matthew were opposed to the gospel of Mark something we already see reflected in Papias. Those users of Matthew seem to be the Encratite followers of Tatian who because of their opposition to Mark and its mention of the Paraclete (at least originally) must also have rejected the Apostle Paul.

While this thread of logic might not make sense to most people it does come up elsewhere in Adversus Haereses in chapter 15 which follows and introduces Luke and Acts to the readers. Irenaeus first says 'here is Luke, you have to accept him, his gospel and Acts' and goes through a lengthy argument in favor of all three. Many read this as being directed against the Marcionites but look at the last chapter (or the beginning of chapter 16 as it is now divided):
But again, we allege the same against those who do not recognise Paul as an apostle: that they should either reject the other words of the Gospel which we have come to know through Luke alone, and not make use of them; or else, if they do receive all these, they must necessarily admit also that testimony concerning Paul, when he (Luke) tells us that the Lord spoke at first to him from heaven: "Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou Me? I am Jesus Christ, whom thou persecutest; " and then to Ananias, saying regarding him: "Go thy way; for he is a chosen vessel unto Me, to bear My name among the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel. For I will show him, from this time, how great things he must suffer for My name's sake." Those, therefore, who do not accept of him [as a teacher], who was chosen by God for this purpose, that he might boldly bear His name, as being sent to the forementioned nations, do despise the election of God, and separate themselves from the company of the apostles. For neither can they contend that Paul was no apostle, when he was chosen for this purpose; nor can they prove Luke guilty of falsehood, when he proclaims the truth to us with all diligence. It may be, indeed, that it was with this view that God set forth very many Gospel truths, through Luke's instrumentality, which all should esteem it necessary to use, in order that all persons, following his subsequent testimony, which treats upon the acts and the doctrine of the apostles, and holding the unadulterated rule of truth, may be saved. His testimony, therefore, is true, and the doctrine of the apostles is open and stedfast, holding nothing in reserve; nor did they teach one set of doctrines in private, and another in public.
Many of the same ideas presented here have already been introduced in the former chapter we just studied in 3.11.7:
Others, again, that they may set at nought the gift of the Spirit, which in the latter times has been, by the good pleasure of the Father, poured out upon the human race, do not admit that aspect [of the evangelical dispensation] presented by John's Gospel, in which the Lord promised that He would send the Paraclete; but set aside at once both the Gospel and the prophetic Spirit. Wretched men indeed! who wish to be pseudo- prophets, forsooth, but who set aside the gift of prophecy from the Church; acting like those who, on account of such as come in hypocrisy, hold themselves aloof from the communion of the brethren. We must conclude, moreover, that these men can not admit the Apostle Paul either. For, in his Epistle to the Corinthians, he speaks expressly of prophetical gifts, and recognises men and women prophesying in the Church. Sinning, therefore, in all these particulars, against the Spirit of God, they fall into the irremissible sin
In both paragraphs the conversation segues to the Valentinians who resemble the Encratites described here but continue to produce gospels. So the Encratites of Tatian used one gospel identified according to Irenaeus's schema as 'proto-Matthew in Hebrew' but in reality we know that they used a Diatessaron. Already Epiphanius helps make the argument for us that 'proto-Matthew (= the Gospel of the Hebrews) was the Diatessaron. But why does Irenaeus go on in chapter 15 to say to these Encratites that if you don't use Luke you won't have all these stories? I think we have by now solved the mystery. The Encratites were being forbidden in Rome and surrounding areas at least from using their preferred text. Somehow they were 'assigned' to the 'man-gospel' (= Matthew) but if they have Matthew alone they don't get this long list of stories familiar to them from their Diatessaron and only found in Luke:
Now if any man set Luke aside, as one who did not know the truth, he will, [by so acting,] manifestly reject that Gospel of which he claims to be a disciple. For through him we have become acquainted with very many and important parts of the Gospel; for instance, the generation of John, the history of Zacharias, the coming of the angel to Mary, the exclamation of Elisabeth, the descent of the angels to the shepherds, the words spoken by them, the testimony of Anna and of Simeon with regard to Christ, and that twelve years of age He was left behind at Jerusalem; also the baptism of John, the number of the Lord's years when He was baptized, and that this occurred in the fifteenth year of Tiberius Caesar. And in His office of teacher this is what He has said to the rich: "Woe unto you that are rich, for ye have received your consolation;"(6) and "Woe unto you that are full, for ye shall hunger; and ye who laugh now, for ye shall weep;" and, "Woe unto you when all men shall speak well of you: for so did your fathers to the false prophets." All things of the following kind we have known through Luke alone (and numerous actions of the Lord we have learned through him, which also all [the Evangelists] notice): the multitude of fishes which Peter's companions enclosed, when at the Lord's command they cast the nets;(7) the woman who had suffered for eighteen years, and was healed on the Sabbath-day;(8) the man who had the dropsy, whom the Lord made whole on the Sabbath, and how He did defend Himself for having performed an act of healing on that day; how He taught His disciples not to aspire to the uppermost rooms; how we should invite the poor and feeble, who cannot recompense us; the man who knocked during the night to obtain loaves, and did obtain them, because of the urgency of his importunity;(9) how, when [our Lord] was sitting at meat with a Pharisee, a woman that was a sinner kissed His feet, and anointed them with ointment, with what the Lord said to Simon on her behalf concerning the two debtors;(10) also about the parable of that rich man who stored up the goods which had accrued to him, to whom it was also said, "In this night they shall demand thy soul from thee; whose then shall those things be which thou hast prepared?"(11) and similar to this, that of the rich man, who was clothed in purple and who fared sumptuously, and the indigent Lazarus;(12) also the answer which He gave to His disciples when they said, "Increase our faith;"(13) also His conversation with Zaccheus the publican;(14) also about the Pharisee and the publican, who were praying in the temple at the same time;(1) also the ten lepers, whom He cleansed in the way simultaneously;(2) also how He ordered the lame and the blind to be gathered to the wedding from the lanes and streets;(3) also the parable of the judge who feared not God, whom the widow's importunity led to avenge her cause;(4) and about the fig-tree in the vineyard which produced no fruit. There are also many other particulars to be found mentioned by Luke alone, which are made use of by both Marcion and Valentinus. And besides all these, [he records] what [Christ] said to His disciples in the way, after the resurrection, and how they recognised Him in the breaking of bread.
It would seem then that the fourfold gospel was created principally to ween the users of the Diatessaron off of their preferred gospel text. Already Irenaeus embraces Justin and fails to mention that Tatian wrote the Diatessaron. Was that because the people knew that the 'super gospel' was much older or that he recognized that he wasn't going to convince them of the recentness of its creation?

Whatever the case his tactic seems to be to identify the Diatessaron with proto-Matthew (as Epiphanius does) and I would assume put forward the idea that the material that they heard in the liturgy which now appears in John, Luke and Mark were actually from separated gospels of John, Luke and Mark rather than a single long gospel.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
Secret Alias
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Re: Was the Fourfold Gospel Directed at the Followers of Tat

Post by Secret Alias »

Now after this initial post Andrew Criddle suggested that canonical Mark could be read to explain the Jesus being crucified and Christ stood by impassably watching:
It is possible to (mis)read canonical Mark so as to have Simon of Cyrene crucified instead of Jesus.
This is an almost impossible way to read the other Gospels.
Here is what Andrew means:
15:21 A certain man from Cyrene, Simon, the father of Alexander and Rufus, was passing by on his way in from the country, and they forced him to carry the cross. 22 They brought him (αὐτὸν) to the place called Golgotha which means “the place of the skull”. 23 Then they offered him (αὐτῷ) wine mixed with myrrh, but he (ὃς) did not take it. 24 And they crucified him (αὐτὸν). Dividing up his clothes (αὐτοῦ), they cast lots to see what each would get. It was moreover the third hour when they crucified him (αὐτόν). And there was the inscription of the accusation against him (αὐτοῦ) having been written 'The king of the Jews.' And with him (αὐτῷ) they crucify two robbers one at the right and one at the left of him (αὐτοῦ). And the scripture was fulfilled which says And with the lawless he was reckoned. Those who passed by hurled insults at him, shaking their heads and saying, “So! The one (ὁ) destroying the temple and building it in three days, come down from the cross and save yourself!” In the same way the chief priests and the teachers of the law mocked him among themselves. “He saved others,” they said, “but he can’t save himself! 32 Let this Christ, this king of Israel, let him come down (καταβάτω) now from the cross, that we may see and believe.” Those crucified with him also heaped insults on him (αὐτόν).
So far so good. But then the theory runs into problems:
33 At noon, darkness came over the whole land until three in the afternoon. 34 And at three in the afternoon Jesus (ὁ Ἰησοῦς) cried out in a loud voice, “Eloi, Eloi, lema sabachthani?” (which means “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”). When some of those standing near heard this, they said, “Listen, he’s calling Elijah.” Someone ran, filled a sponge with wine vinegar, put it on a staff, and offered it to Jesus to drink. “Now leave him alone. Let’s see if Elijah comes to take him down,” he said. With a loud cry, Jesus (Ἰησοῦς) breathed his last. The curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. 39 And when the centurion, who stood there in front of him (αὐτοῦ), saw how he died, he said, “Surely this man (ὁ ἄνθρωπος) was the Son of God!”


Of course the way out of this dilemma is to assume that 'Ishu' = Jesus (going back to my suggestion about the nomen sacrum). As such we might retain the idea that only a 'man' is referenced here. Moreover Irenaeus explicitly says that 'Jesus' - not 'Christ' - was said to be crucified and 'Christ' - not 'Jesus' stood by impassibly watching. How is that to be explained?
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
Secret Alias
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Re: Was the Fourfold Gospel Directed at the Followers of Tat

Post by Secret Alias »

There is clearly something to what Andrew is suggesting but alas there is still something more needed. The idea seems to still be that the original text was altered.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
Secret Alias
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Re: Was the Fourfold Gospel Directed at the Followers of Tat

Post by Secret Alias »

Interestingly Justin seems to cite from Matthew's version of events:
And the following: 'All they that see me laughed me to scorn; they spoke with the lips, they shook the head: He trusted in the Lord; let Him deliver him, since he desires Him;' this likewise He foretold should happen to Him. For they that saw Him crucified shook their heads each one of them, and distorted their lips, and twisting their noses to each other, they spoke in mockery the words which are recorded in the memoirs of His apostles: 'He said he was the Son of God: let him come down; let God save him.'
Indeed I am wondering if Matthew is any less useful for the docetic tradition as it reads:
As they were going out, they met a man (ἄνθρωπον) from Cyrene, named Simon, and they forced him to carry the cross of him (αὐτοῦ ). 33 They came to a place called Golgotha (which means “the place of the skull”). 34 There they offered him (αὐτῷ) wine to drink, mixed with gall; but after tasting it, he refused to drink it. 35 When they had crucified him (αὐτὸν), they divided up his clothes (αὐτοῦ) by casting lots. 36 And sitting down, they kept watch over him (αὐτὸν) there. 37 Above his head they placed the written charge against him: this is jesus (ΙΗΣΟΥΣ), the king of the jews.

38 Two rebels were crucified with him (αὐτῷ), one on his right and one on his left. 39 Those who passed by hurled insults at him (αὐτὸν), shaking their heads 40 and saying, “The one (Ὁ) destroying the temple and building it in three days, save yourself! Come down from the cross, if you are the Son of God!” 41 In the same way the chief priests, the teachers of the law and the elders mocked him. 42 “He saved others,” they said, “but he can’t save himself! He’s the king of Israel! Let him come down now from the cross, and we will believe in him (αὐτόν). 43 He trusts in God. Let God rescue him now if he wants him, for he said, ‘I am the Son of God.’” 44 In the same way the rebels who were crucified with him also heaped insults on him (αὐτόν).
I am sorry folks this gospel would work just as well for the group who separated Jesus and Christ saying Jesus was crucified and Christ stood impassably. There is no difference save for the acknowledgement that 'Jesus' was crucified (which agrees with the claims of the group). If Andrew's point is that this supports Basilides's understanding of a 'switch' (as in the Islamic pseudepigrapha) let's remember that the Jews were understood to have been 'fooled' so the fact that they thought Jesus was crucified would lead them to put the name 'Jesus' on the Cross. Hardly a problem for that tradition either. In fact it agrees with the literature. The docetists like to play up the Jewish 'error' here.

The rest of the section agrees with what we found in Mark with respect to explicit mention of 'Jesus.' I am not convinced that what appears in Mark is any more or less suitable to Irenaeus's identification of 'those who separate Jesus and Christ and say that Jesus suffered and Christ stood by impassably.'
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
Secret Alias
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Re: Was the Fourfold Gospel Directed at the Followers of Tat

Post by Secret Alias »

There is a curious passage in Origen's Commentary (which now reads as a commentary on Matthew but originally read as a commentary on the Diatessaron) where Origen works toward the point that each of us is meant to be crucified with Christ but unexpectedly cites John:
On this account let every thought and every purpose and every word and every action become a denial of ourselves, but a testimony about Christ and in Christ; for I am persuaded that every action of the perfect man is a testimony to Christ Jesus, and that abstinence from every sin is a denial of self, leading him after Christ. And such an one is crucified with Christ, and taking up his own cross follows Him who for our sakes bears His own cross, according to that which is said in John: They took Jesus therefore and put it on Him, etc., down to the words, Where they crucified Him. John 19:17-18
Yes of course the passage goes on to differentiate between what the synoptics and John say but I wonder if there is something important in this one line which might have appeared in a Diatessaron or 'super gospel.'
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
Secret Alias
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Re: Was the Fourfold Gospel Directed at the Followers of Tat

Post by Secret Alias »

Clement cites or knows the words from John 19:17 and likens them to the plight of Isaac:
He is Isaac (Αὐτὸς δὲ ὁ Ἰσαάκ) for the narrative may be interpreted otherwise, who is a type of the Lord (τύπος ὅς ἐστὶ τοῦ κυρίου), a child as a son; for he was the son of Abraham, as Christ the Son of God (ὡς ὁ Χριστὸς τοῦ θεοῦ), and a sacrifice as the Lord (ἱερεῖον δὲ ὡς ὁ κύριος). But he was not immolated as the Lord (Ἀλλ' οὐ κεκάρπωται ὡς ὁ κύριος). Isaac only bore the wood of the sacrifice (μόνον ἐβάστασε τὰ ξύλα τῆς ἱερουργίας ὁ Ἰσαάκ), as the Lord the wood (ὡς ὁ κύριος τὸ ξύλον). And he laughed mystically (Ἐγέλα δὲ μυστικῶς), prophesying that the Lord should fill us with joy, who have been redeemed from corruption by the blood of the Lord ( ἐμπλῆσαι ἡμᾶς προφητεύων χαρᾶς τὸν κύριον τοὺς αἵματι κυρίου ἐκ φθορᾶς λελυτρωμένους). He did not suffer in (Οὐκ ἔπαθεν δέ), as was right, yielding the precedence in suffering to the Word (οὐ μόνον εἰκότως ἄρα τὰ πρωτεῖα τοῦ πάθους παραχωρῶν τῷ λόγῳ), but there is an intimation of the divinity of the Lord in His not being slain (ἀλλὰ καὶ τοῦ κυρίου τὴν θειότητα αἰνίττεται μὴ σφαγείς). For he rose again after His burial (ἀνέστη γὰρ μετὰ τὴν κηδείαν), Jesus did not suffer (ὁ Ἰησοῦς μὴ παθών), like Isaac released from sacrifice (καθάπερ ἱερουργίας ἀφειμένος ὁ Ἰσαάκ).
I don't know about you but this sloppy reconstruction of the passage seems to be closer to what Irenaeus was getting on about the 'gospel of Mark' of the heretics which separated Jesus and Christ than anything Andrew found in canonical Mark. The only thing is that we have to imagine that John 19:17 was a part of Mark.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
Secret Alias
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Re: Was the Fourfold Gospel Directed at the Followers of Tat

Post by Secret Alias »

Indeed Clement stands very close in his description to the laughing Jesus in the Basilidean composition found in various docetic traditions. Irenaeus reports of the sect:
He appeared on earth as a man and performed miracles. Thus he himself did not suffer. Rather, a certain Simon of Cyrene was compelled to carry his cross for him. It was he who was ignorantly and erroneously crucified, being transfigured by him, so that he might be thought to be Jesus. Moreover, Jesus assumed the form of Simon, and stood by laughing at them
As Wikipedia notes:
Epiphanius of Salamis reports the same episode as being taught by Basilides,[32] although he may in this be relying solely on Irenaeus.[33] Accounts of the living Christ being seen laughing alongside, or above, the crucifixion are also found in two second/third century Gnostic texts in the Nag Hammadi Library; the Apocalypse of Peter[34][35] and The Second Treatise of the Great Seth;[36][37] and in the latter text, Simon of Cyrene is also identified as being one of a succession of bodily substitutes for the spiritual Christ. Winrich Löhr infers that a common mid-second century gospel tradition (which he nevertheless doubts as originating with Basilides himself) must underlie both the Irenaeus notice and the two Nag Hammadi texts
The Second Stele of Seth writes:
For my death, which they think happened, happened to them in their error and blindness, since they nailed their man unto their death. Their thoughts did not see me, for they were deaf and blind. But in doing these things, they condemn themselves. Yes, they saw me; they punished me. It was another, their father, who drank the gall and the vinegar; it was not I. They struck me with the reed; it was another, Simon, who bore the cross on his shoulder. It was another upon whom they placed the crown of thorns. But I was rejoicing in the height over all the wealth of the rulers and the offspring of their error, of their empty glory. And I was laughing at their ignorance.
So I think Andrew has part of the answer but we must go back to a 'single long gospel' - a Diatessaronic 'super gospel' - which had bits of John within Mark (as we have already seen). In this case John 19:17 seems to be the critical missing piece taken out of the 'super gospel.' With it we see the authorities confusing Jesus and Simon, placing the cross on Jesus and sending him off and crucifying Simon instead. There was also a statement in the gospel that Jesus or perhaps more correctly that Christ was laughing thus emphasizing his 'impassable' nature (i.e. above emotions).
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
Secret Alias
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Re: Was the Fourfold Gospel Directed at the Followers of Tat

Post by Secret Alias »

I don't think anyone has ever noticed that in the previous section cited in Origen's Commentary (allegedly 'on Matthew' but originally 'the super gospel') he cites words that come from readings related to the Diatessaron - https://books.google.com/books?id=oixOA ... 22&f=false:
And such an one is crucified with Christ, and taking up his own cross follows Him who for our sakes bears His own cross, according to that which is said in John: They took him therefore and put it on Him, etc., down to the words, Where they crucified Him.

ὁ δὲ τοιοῦτος Χριστῷ συνε σταύρωται, καὶ ἄρας τὸν σταυρὸν ἑαυτοῦ ἀκολουθεῖ τῷ δι' ἡμᾶς βα στάζοντι τὸν ἑαυτοῦ σταυρὸν κατὰ τὸ εἰρημένον οὕτω παρὰ τῷ Ἰωάννῃ «παραλαβόντες οὖν αὐτὸν ἐπέθηκαν αὐτῷ» καὶ τὰ ἑξῆς ἕως τοῦ «ὅπου αὐτὸν ἐσταύρωσαν».
John 19:17 to verse 18 in our canon reads:
Παρέλαβον οὖν τὸν Ἰησοῦν· καὶ βαστάζων ἑαυτῷ τὸν σταυρὸν ἐξῆλθεν εἰς τὸν λεγόμενον Κρανίου τόπον, ὃ λέγεται Ἑβραϊστὶ Γολγοθᾶ, 18 ὅπου αὐτὸν ἐσταύρωσαν, καὶ μετ’ αὐτοῦ ἄλλους δύο ἐντεῦθεν καὶ ἐντεῦθεν, μέσον δὲ τὸν Ἰησοῦν.
Indeed when you read Origen's comments it clearly fits into the logic of the docetic Christians who - as Criddle suggests - saw something in Simon's introduction into the narrative.

As I have noted many times before in my arguments in favor of the original Commentary being devoted to a super gospel - not Matthew - the subsequent references to what Matthew, Mark and Luke versus John are written by a secondary hand. In the previous section John has been cited to highlight the role of the true believer 'carrying the cross' of Jesus. As such Origen understood 'they took him therefore and put it upon him' as denoting Simon of Cyrene:
But the Jesus according to John, so to speak, bears the cross for Himself, and bearing it went out; but the Jesus according to Matthew and Mark and Luke, does not bear it for Himself, Simon of Cyrene bears it. And perhaps this man refers to us, who because of Jesus take up the cross of Jesus, but Jesus Himself takes it upon Himself; for there are, as it were, two conceptions of the cross, the one which Simon of Cyrene bears, and the other which Jesus Himself bears for Himself.

κατὰ τὸν Ἰωάννην Ἰησοῦς «ἑαυτῷ» βαστάζει «τὸν σταυρὸν» καὶ «βαστάζων αὐτὸν ἐξῆλθεν», ὁ δὲ κα τὰ τὸν Ματθαῖον καὶ Μᾶρκον καὶ Λουκᾶν οὐχ ἑαυτῷ αὐτὸν αἴρει· Σίμων γὰρ ὁ Κυρηναῖος αὐτὸν βαστάζει. καὶ τάχα οὗτος μὲν εἰς ἡμᾶς ἀναφέρεται, τοὺς διὰ τὸν Ἰησοῦν τὸν Ἰησοῦ σταυρὸν αἴροντας, αὐτὸς δὲ ὁ Ἰησοῦς εἰς ἑαυτόν· οἷον γὰρ δύο ἐπίνοιαι τοῦ σταυροῦ εἰσιν, ἑνὸς μὲν ὃν ὁ Σίμων ὁ Κυρηναῖος βαστάζει, ἑτέρου δὲ ὃν αὐτὸς «ἑαυ τῷ» ὁ Ἰησοῦς
Therefore I suppose that the original material - uncorrected by Eusebius to free it from heresy - had the argument:
And such an one is crucified with Christ, and taking up his own cross follows Him who for our sakes bears His own cross: They took him therefore and put it on Him, etc., down to the words, Where they crucified Him. Simon of Cyrene bears it. And perhaps this man refers to us, who because of Jesus take up the cross of Jesus
In other words, both Clement and Origen and likely the unnamed heretics of Irenaeus who prefer Mark had a super gospel which had a verse which now appears in John as 'they took Jesus and put it (the cross) on him' which originally read 'they took him and put it upon him' and referred to Simon of Cyrene and which Origen used as a sign that we the believers are meant to be crucified in the place of Christ. Notice what immediately follows in the Commentary:
Moreover in regard to the saying, Let him deny himself, Matthew 16:24 the following saying of Paul who denied himself seems appropriate, Yet I live, and yet no longer I but Christ lives in me; Galatians 2:20 for the expression, I live, yet no longer I, was the voice of one denying himself, as of one who had laid aside his own life and taken on himself the Christ, in order that He might live in him as Righteousness, and as Wisdom, and as Sanctification, and as our Peace, and as the Power of God, who works all things in him. But further also, attend to this, that while there are many forms of dying, the Son of God was crucified, being hanged on a tree, in order that all who die unto sin may die to it, in no other way than by the way of the cross. Wherefore they will say, I have been crucified with Christ, and, Far be it from me to glory save in the cross of the Lord, through which the world has been crucified unto me and I unto the world. For perhaps also each of those who have been crucified with Christ puts off from himself the principalities and the powers, and makes a show of them and triumphs over them in the cross; Colossians 2:15 or rather, Christ does these things in them.
There is some sort of a recognition again that Paul was Simon in all of this which we have already seen in the Clementine literature.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
Secret Alias
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Re: Was the Fourfold Gospel Directed at the Followers of Tat

Post by Secret Alias »

Indeed when we compare the passages we start to see how similar Mark and John begin to look with Origen's citation. Let's try and reconstruct Origen's text. It would seem to have had the Simon narrative followed by John 19:16. This I think changes the οὖν in the verse to something radically different - i.e. to 'really.' In other words, instead of Jesus they took Simon. In other words:
They (the soldiers) really (οὖν) took him (i.e. Simon) and put it (the cross) on Him.
Compare the use of οὖν in Il.2.350 φημὶ γὰρ οὖν κατανεῦσαι . . Κρονίωνα (= for I declare that Zeus did really promise ...) Now we begin to see why the line was removed from the master text of the Alexandrian Church (and shared by Basilides, Clement and now Origen) and tucked safely away in John. Indeed it is impossible not to see that John's Passion narrative is closely related to the synoptics. It was deconstructed to destroy the understanding which was preserved in the Diatessaronic-using communities into early Islam (and thus the Islamic pseudepigrapha) viz. Jesus and someone else switched places before the crucifixion.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
perseusomega9
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Re: Was the Fourfold Gospel Directed at the Followers of Tat

Post by perseusomega9 »

Secret Alias wrote:
Whatever the case his tactic seems to be to identify the Diatessaron with proto-Matthew (as Epiphanius does) and I would assume put forward the idea that the material that they heard in the liturgy which now appears in John, Luke and Mark were actually from separated gospels of John, Luke and Mark rather than a single long gospel.
Excellent analysis IMO.
The metric to judge if one is a good exegete: the way he/she deals with Barabbas.

Who disagrees with me on this precise point is by definition an idiot.
-Giuseppe
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