to Iskander: Romans 9:4-5

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Kunigunde Kreuzerin
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to Iskander: Romans 9:4-5

Post by Kunigunde Kreuzerin » Thu Jun 30, 2016 12:24 am

iskander wrote:Would you kindly consider translating Romans 9:4-5 in a new thread.?
Romans 9:4
οἵτινές εἰσιν Ἰσραηλεῖται, ὧν ἡ υἱοθεσία καὶ ἡ δόξα καὶ αἱ διαθῆκαι καὶ ἡ νομοθεσία καὶ ἡ λατρεία καὶ αἱ ἐπαγγελίαι,
who are Israelites, whose (is) the sonship and the glory and the covenants and the lawgiving and the service and the promises;

1) ὅστις - whosoever, whichsoever, whatsoever
Rom 1:25, 1:32, 2:15, 6:2, 9:4, 11:4, 16:4, 16:6, 16:7, 16:12, 1 Cor 3:17, 5:1, 6:20, 2 Cor 8:10, 9:11, Gal 2:4, 2x 4:24, 4:26, 5:4, 5:10, 5:19, Phil 1:28, 2:20, 3:7, 4:3
26 Pauline/140 NT-occurrences = 18,6 % = medium

2) Ἰσραηλίτης - Israelites
Rom 9:4, 11:1, 2 Cor 1:22, all other in Acts
3/9 occurrences = 33,33 % = very strong

3) υἱοθεσία - adoption, giving of sonship
from hyiós "son" and títhēmi "to place"
Rom 8:15, 8:23, 9:4, Gal 4:5 (+ Eph 1:5)
4/5 occurrences = 80 % = very strong

4) δόξα - honor, renown; glory
Rom 1:23, Rom 2:7, 2:10, Rom 3:7, Rom 3:23, Rom 4:20, Rom 5:2, Rom 6:4, Rom 8:18, Rom 8:21, Rom 9:4, Rom 9:23, Rom 9:23, Rom 11:36, Rom 14:26, Rom 15:7, Rom 16:27, 1Cor 2:7, 1Cor 2:8, 1Cor 10:31, 1Cor 11:7, 1Cor 11:15, 1Cor 15:40, 1Cor 15:41, 1Cor 15:41, 1Cor 15:43, 2Cor 1:20, 2Cor 3:7, 2Cor 3:7, 2Cor 3:8, 2Cor 3:9, 2 Cor 3:9, 2Cor 3:10, 2Cor 3:11, 2Cor 3:11, 2Cor 3:18, 2Cor 3:18, 2Cor 4:4, 2Cor 4:6, 2Cor 4:15, 2Cor 4:17, 2Cor 6:8, 2Cor 8:19, 2 Cor 3:9, 2Cor 8:23, 2Cor 11:16, Gal 1:5, Phil 1:11, Phil 2:11, Phil 3:19, Phil 3:21, Phil 4:19, Phil 4:20, 1Thes 2:6, 1Thes 2:12, 1Thes 2:20
57/167 occurrences = 34,13 % = very strong

5) διαθήκη - covenant, will, testament
Rom 9:4, Rom 11:27, 1Cor 11:25, 2Cor 3:6, 2Cor 3:14, Gal 3:15, Gal 3:17, Gal 4:24
8/33 occurrences = 24,24 % = strong

6) νομοθεσία - lawgiving, legislation
note the same compounding: υἱο-θεσία (adoption) and νομο-θεσία (lawgiving)
hapax legomenon = 1/1 ocurrences = not counted

7) λατρεία - service, worship
Rom 9:4, Rom 12:1
2/5 occurrences = 40 % = very strong

8) ἐπαγγελία - promise
Rom 4:13, Rom 4:14, Rom 4:16, Rom 4:20, Rom 9:4, Rom 9:8, Rom 9:9, Rom 15:8, 2Cor 1:20, 2Cor 7:1, Gal 3:14, Gal 3:16, Gal 3:17, 2xGal 3:18, Gal 3:21, Gal 3:22, Gal 3:29, Gal 4:23, Gal 4:28
20/52 occurrences = 38,46 % = very strong


Romans 9:5
ὧν οἱ πατέρες, καὶ ἐξ ὧν ὁ χριστὸς τὸ κατὰ σάρκα, ὁ ὢν ἐπὶ πάντων, θεὸς εὐλογητὸς εἰς τοὺς αἰῶνας· ἀμήν.
whose [are] the fathers; and of whom (is) the Christ, the according (to) flesh, the (one) being over all, God blessed to the ages! Amen.

1) πατέρες - fathers
I searched only the plurals
Rom 9:5, 11:28, 15:8, 1Cor 4:15, 10:1
5/53 occurrences = 9,43 % = weak

2) ἐξ – of
Rom 1:4, Rom 2:8, Rom 2:29, Rom 3:20, Rom 4:2, Rom 5:16, Rom 9:5, Rom 9:6, Rom 9:10, Rom 9:11, Rom 9:24, Rom 9:32, Rom 10:17, Rom 11:6, Rom 11:14, Rom 11:36, Rom 12:18, Rom 13:3, Rom 13:11, 1Cor 1:30, 1Cor 5:13, 1Cor 8:6, 1Cor 11:8, 1Cor 15:6, 1Cor 15:47, 2Cor 2:2, 2Cor 2:17, 2Cor 3:1, 2Cor 3:5, 2Cor 4:7, 2Cor 5:2, 2Cor 7:9, 2Cor 8:7, 2Cor 8:13, 2Cor 9:2, 2Cor 9:7, 2Cor 11:26, 2Cor 12:6, 2Cor 13:4, Gal 1:8, Gal 2:15, Gal 2:16, Gal 3:2, Gal 3:5, Gal 3:10, Gal 3:18, Phil 1:16, Phil 1:17, Phil 3:5, Phil 3:20, 1Thes 2:3, 1Thes 2:6,
52/236 occurrences = 22,03 % = strong

- the phrase „ἐξ ὧν“ - „of whom“ (total occurrences NT: 4)
Acts 15:29, Rom 9:5, 1 Cor 15:6, 1 Tim 6:4
2/4 occurrences = 50 % = very strong

3) σάρξ - flesh
Rom 1:3, Rom 2:28, Rom 3:20, Rom 4:1, Rom 6:19, Rom 7:25, Rom 7:5, Rom 7:18, Rom 8:1, Rom 8:3, Rom 8:4, Rom 8:5, Rom 8:6, Rom 8:7, Rom 8:8, Rom 8:9, Rom 8:12, Rom 8:13, Rom 9:3, Rom 9:5, Rom 9:8, Rom 11:14, Rom 13:14, 1Cor 1:26, 1Cor 1:29, 1Cor 5:5, Cor 6:16, 1Cor 7:28, 1Cor 10:18, 1Cor 15:39, 1Cor 15:50, 2Cor 1:17, 2Cor 4:11, 2Cor 5:16, 2Cor 7:1, 2Cor 7:5, 2Cor 10:2, 2Cor 10:3, 2Cor 11:18, 2Cor 12:7, Gal 1:16, Gal 2:16, Gal 2:20, Gal 3:3, Gal 4:13, Gal 4:14, Gal 4:23, Gal 4:29, Gal 5:13, Gal 5:16, Gal 5:17, Gal 5:19, Gal 5:24, Gal 6:8, Gal 6:12, Gal 6:13, Phil 1:22, Phil 1:24, Phil 3:3, Phil 3:4, Phlm 1:16
73/149 occurrences = 48,99 % = very strong

(the phrase „κατὰ σάρκα“ – according (to) flesh: allmost all occurences in Paul's letters Rom 1:3, 4:1, 8:1, 8:4, 8:5, 8:12, 8:13, 9:3, 9:5, 1Cor 1:26, 10:18, 2Cor 1:17, 2x5:16, 10:2, 10:3, 11:18, Gal 4:23, 4:29)

4) πάντων
– (of) all
- I searched only the inflection „πάντων“
Rom 1:8, Rom 4:11, Rom 4:16, Rom 8:32, Rom 9:5, Rom 10:12, Rom 12:17, Rom 12:18, Rom 15:33, Rom 16:24, 1Cor 4:13, 1Cor 9:19, 1Cor 14:18, 1Cor 14:24, 1Cor 15:8, 1Cor 15:10, 1Cor 15:19, 1Cor 16:24, 2Cor 2:3, 2Cor 3:2, 2Cor 5:14, 2Cor 5:15, 2Cor 7:13, 2Cor 7:15, 2Cor 13:14, Gal 2:14, Gal 4:1, Gal 4:26, Phil 1:4, Phil 1:7, Phil 4:23, 1Thes 1:2, 1Thes 3:13, 1Thes 4:6,
34/135 occurrences = 25,19 % = strong

5) εὐλογητός - blessed, the blessed one
4/8 occurrences = 50 % = very strong

6) αἰών
– age, time, eternity
21/125 occurrences = 16,8 % = medium

7) ἀμὴν – Amen!
15/143 occurrences = 10,49 % = weak


summary of Rom 9:4-5

very weak: 0
weak: 2
medium: 2
strong: 3
very strong: 8
not counted: 1
Kunigunde Kreuzerin wrote:.1) A statistic of Greek words in the NT

Words NTWords of Paul‘s „7“ lettersSum of Paul‘s wordspercent
138.020 wordsRom 7111 words
1 Cor 6829 words
2 Cor 4477 words
Gal 2230 words
Phil 1629 words
1 Thes 1481 words
Phlm 335 words
24.092 words17,46 %


2) A word in 1 Cor 15:3-11 is a weak or strong "Pauline" word

very weak …..... 0 – 4,9 % of the occurrences in the NT
weak …........... 5 – 14,9 % of the occurrences in the NT
medium …....... 15 – 19,9 % of the occurrences in the NT
strong ….......... 20 – 29,9 % of the occurrences in the NT
very strong ….... 30 – 100 % of the occurrences in the NT

I corrected the numbers of the occurrences as best as possible. The statistic is now based on biblehub

iskander
Posts: 1639
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2015 12:38 pm

Re: to Iskander: Romans 9:4-5

Post by iskander » Thu Jun 30, 2016 5:20 am

Kunigunde Kreuzerin wrote:
iskander wrote:Would you kindly consider translating Romans 9:4-5 in a new thread.?
Romans 9:4
οἵτινές εἰσιν Ἰσραηλεῖται, ὧν ἡ υἱοθεσία καὶ ἡ δόξα καὶ αἱ διαθῆκαι καὶ ἡ νομοθεσία καὶ ἡ λατρεία καὶ αἱ ἐπαγγελίαι,
who are Israelites, whose (is) the sonship and the glory and the covenants and the lawgiving and the service and the promises;

1) ὅστις - whosoever, whichsoever, whatsoever
Rom 1:25, 1:32, 2:15, 6:2, 9:4, 11:4, 16:4, 16:6, 16:7, 16:12, 1 Cor 3:17, 5:1, 6:20, 2 Cor 8:10, 9:11, Gal 2:4, 2x 4:24, 4:26, 5:4, 5:10, 5:19, Phil 1:28, 2:20, 3:7, 4:3
26 Pauline/140 NT-occurrences = 18,6 % = medium

2) Ἰσραηλίτης - Israelites
Rom 9:4, 11:1, 2 Cor 1:22, all other in Acts
3/9 occurrences = 33,33 % = very strong

3) υἱοθεσία - adoption, giving of sonship
from hyiós "son" and títhēmi "to place"
Rom 8:15, 8:23, 9:4, Gal 4:5 (+ Eph 1:5)
4/5 occurrences = 80 % = very strong

4) δόξα - honor, renown; glory
Rom 1:23, Rom 2:7, 2:10, Rom 3:7, Rom 3:23, Rom 4:20, Rom 5:2, Rom 6:4, Rom 8:18, Rom 8:21, Rom 9:4, Rom 9:23, Rom 9:23, Rom 11:36, Rom 14:26, Rom 15:7, Rom 16:27, 1Cor 2:7, 1Cor 2:8, 1Cor 10:31, 1Cor 11:7, 1Cor 11:15, 1Cor 15:40, 1Cor 15:41, 1Cor 15:41, 1Cor 15:43, 2Cor 1:20, 2Cor 3:7, 2Cor 3:7, 2Cor 3:8, 2Cor 3:9, 2 Cor 3:9, 2Cor 3:10, 2Cor 3:11, 2Cor 3:11, 2Cor 3:18, 2Cor 3:18, 2Cor 4:4, 2Cor 4:6, 2Cor 4:15, 2Cor 4:17, 2Cor 6:8, 2Cor 8:19, 2 Cor 3:9, 2Cor 8:23, 2Cor 11:16, Gal 1:5, Phil 1:11, Phil 2:11, Phil 3:19, Phil 3:21, Phil 4:19, Phil 4:20, 1Thes 2:6, 1Thes 2:12, 1Thes 2:20
57/167 occurrences = 34,13 % = very strong

5) διαθήκη - covenant, will, testament
Rom 9:4, Rom 11:27, 1Cor 11:25, 2Cor 3:6, 2Cor 3:14, Gal 3:15, Gal 3:17, Gal 4:24
8/33 occurrences = 24,24 % = strong

6) νομοθεσία - lawgiving, legislation
note the same compounding: υἱο-θεσία (adoption) and νομο-θεσία (lawgiving)
hapax legomenon = 1/1 ocurrences = not counted

7) λατρεία - service, worship
Rom 9:4, Rom 12:1
2/5 occurrences = 40 % = very strong

8) ἐπαγγελία - promise
Rom 4:13, Rom 4:14, Rom 4:16, Rom 4:20, Rom 9:4, Rom 9:8, Rom 9:9, Rom 15:8, 2Cor 1:20, 2Cor 7:1, Gal 3:14, Gal 3:16, Gal 3:17, 2xGal 3:18, Gal 3:21, Gal 3:22, Gal 3:29, Gal 4:23, Gal 4:28
20/52 occurrences = 38,46 % = very strong


Romans 9:5
ὧν οἱ πατέρες, καὶ ἐξ ὧν ὁ χριστὸς τὸ κατὰ σάρκα, ὁ ὢν ἐπὶ πάντων, θεὸς εὐλογητὸς εἰς τοὺς αἰῶνας· ἀμήν.
whose [are] the fathers; and of whom (is) the Christ, the according (to) flesh, the (one) being over all, God blessed to the ages! Amen.

1) πατέρες - fathers
I searched only the plurals
Rom 9:5, 11:28, 15:8, 1Cor 4:15, 10:1
5/53 occurrences = 9,43 % = weak

2) ἐξ – of
Rom 1:4, Rom 2:8, Rom 2:29, Rom 3:20, Rom 4:2, Rom 5:16, Rom 9:5, Rom 9:6, Rom 9:10, Rom 9:11, Rom 9:24, Rom 9:32, Rom 10:17, Rom 11:6, Rom 11:14, Rom 11:36, Rom 12:18, Rom 13:3, Rom 13:11, 1Cor 1:30, 1Cor 5:13, 1Cor 8:6, 1Cor 11:8, 1Cor 15:6, 1Cor 15:47, 2Cor 2:2, 2Cor 2:17, 2Cor 3:1, 2Cor 3:5, 2Cor 4:7, 2Cor 5:2, 2Cor 7:9, 2Cor 8:7, 2Cor 8:13, 2Cor 9:2, 2Cor 9:7, 2Cor 11:26, 2Cor 12:6, 2Cor 13:4, Gal 1:8, Gal 2:15, Gal 2:16, Gal 3:2, Gal 3:5, Gal 3:10, Gal 3:18, Phil 1:16, Phil 1:17, Phil 3:5, Phil 3:20, 1Thes 2:3, 1Thes 2:6,
52/236 occurrences = 22,03 % = strong

- the phrase „ἐξ ὧν“ - „of whom“ (total occurrences NT: 4)
Acts 15:29, Rom 9:5, 1 Cor 15:6, 1 Tim 6:4
2/4 occurrences = 50 % = very strong

3) σάρξ - flesh
Rom 1:3, Rom 2:28, Rom 3:20, Rom 4:1, Rom 6:19, Rom 7:25, Rom 7:5, Rom 7:18, Rom 8:1, Rom 8:3, Rom 8:4, Rom 8:5, Rom 8:6, Rom 8:7, Rom 8:8, Rom 8:9, Rom 8:12, Rom 8:13, Rom 9:3, Rom 9:5, Rom 9:8, Rom 11:14, Rom 13:14, 1Cor 1:26, 1Cor 1:29, 1Cor 5:5, Cor 6:16, 1Cor 7:28, 1Cor 10:18, 1Cor 15:39, 1Cor 15:50, 2Cor 1:17, 2Cor 4:11, 2Cor 5:16, 2Cor 7:1, 2Cor 7:5, 2Cor 10:2, 2Cor 10:3, 2Cor 11:18, 2Cor 12:7, Gal 1:16, Gal 2:16, Gal 2:20, Gal 3:3, Gal 4:13, Gal 4:14, Gal 4:23, Gal 4:29, Gal 5:13, Gal 5:16, Gal 5:17, Gal 5:19, Gal 5:24, Gal 6:8, Gal 6:12, Gal 6:13, Phil 1:22, Phil 1:24, Phil 3:3, Phil 3:4, Phlm 1:16
73/149 occurrences = 48,99 % = very strong

(the phrase „κατὰ σάρκα“ – according (to) flesh: allmost all occurences in Paul's letters Rom 1:3, 4:1, 8:1, 8:4, 8:5, 8:12, 8:13, 9:3, 9:5, 1Cor 1:26, 10:18, 2Cor 1:17, 2x5:16, 10:2, 10:3, 11:18, Gal 4:23, 4:29)

4) πάντων
– (of) all
- I searched only the inflection „πάντων“
Rom 1:8, Rom 4:11, Rom 4:16, Rom 8:32, Rom 9:5, Rom 10:12, Rom 12:17, Rom 12:18, Rom 15:33, Rom 16:24, 1Cor 4:13, 1Cor 9:19, 1Cor 14:18, 1Cor 14:24, 1Cor 15:8, 1Cor 15:10, 1Cor 15:19, 1Cor 16:24, 2Cor 2:3, 2Cor 3:2, 2Cor 5:14, 2Cor 5:15, 2Cor 7:13, 2Cor 7:15, 2Cor 13:14, Gal 2:14, Gal 4:1, Gal 4:26, Phil 1:4, Phil 1:7, Phil 4:23, 1Thes 1:2, 1Thes 3:13, 1Thes 4:6,
34/135 occurrences = 25,19 % = strong

5) εὐλογητός - blessed, the blessed one
4/8 occurrences = 50 % = very strong

6) αἰών
– age, time, eternity
21/125 occurrences = 16,8 % = medium

7) ἀμὴν – Amen!
15/143 occurrences = 10,49 % = weak


summary of Rom 9:4-5

very weak: 0
weak: 2
medium: 2
strong: 3
very strong: 8
not counted: 1
Kunigunde Kreuzerin wrote:.1) A statistic of Greek words in the NT

Words NTWords of Paul‘s „7“ lettersSum of Paul‘s wordspercent
138.020 wordsRom 7111 words
1 Cor 6829 words
2 Cor 4477 words
Gal 2230 words
Phil 1629 words
1 Thes 1481 words
Phlm 335 words
24.092 words17,46 %


2) A word in 1 Cor 15:3-11 is a weak or strong "Pauline" word

very weak …..... 0 – 4,9 % of the occurrences in the NT
weak …........... 5 – 14,9 % of the occurrences in the NT
medium …....... 15 – 19,9 % of the occurrences in the NT
strong ….......... 20 – 29,9 % of the occurrences in the NT
very strong ….... 30 – 100 % of the occurrences in the NT

I corrected the numbers of the occurrences as best as possible. The statistic is now based on biblehub
Thank you very much.
Douglas J. Moo writes in, The epistle to the Romans, the following: see attached file Romans 9 a.( page 565)

Is it possible from the Greek text to know who Jesus was in the mind of Paul?, -- a choice between either the messiah sent by God or, alternatively, the presence of God incarnate.
Attachments
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iskander
Posts: 1639
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2015 12:38 pm

Re: to Iskander: Romans 9:4-5

Post by iskander » Wed Jul 27, 2016 3:40 am

Romans 9:4
They are descendants of Israel, chosen to be God's sons; theirs is the glory of the divine presence, theirs the covenants, the law, the temple worship, and the promises.

Romans 9:5
The patriarchs are theirs, and from them by natural descent came the Messiah. May God, supreme above all , be blessed for ever! Amen.
The Oxford Study Bible
https://www.oxfam.org.uk/shop/books/ref ... 7QodT5QCOg

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