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by John2
Wed Nov 23, 2022 8:04 pm
Forum: Jewish Texts and History
Topic: The Elephantine Papyri
Replies: 26
Views: 394

Re: The Elephantine Papyri

How does one define "Judaism"? Is it possible to have a non-biblical Judaism? What would that look like and still be "Judaism"? I guess it depends on the time period. Whenever the OT may have been written, even in its presentation of events Jews were in the process of getting th...
by John2
Wed Nov 23, 2022 6:58 pm
Forum: Jewish Texts and History
Topic: The Elephantine Papyri
Replies: 26
Views: 394

Re: The Elephantine Papyri

How does one define "Judaism"? Is it possible to have a non-biblical Judaism? What would that look like and still be "Judaism"? I guess it depends on the time period. Whenever the OT may have been written, even in its presentation of events Jews were in the process of getting th...
by John2
Sat Nov 19, 2022 6:06 pm
Forum: Jewish Texts and History
Topic: The Elephantine Papyri
Replies: 26
Views: 394

Re: The Elephantine Papyri

The "non-Biblical Judaism" of Elephantine was basically everything "Biblical Judaism" hated and was trying to eradicate, but was apparently perfectly compatible with current Persian Era practices at Jerusalem's temple and in Samaria, given the amicable correspondence between the...
by John2
Sat Nov 19, 2022 5:13 pm
Forum: Jewish Texts and History
Topic: The Elephantine Papyri
Replies: 26
Views: 394

Re: The Elephantine Papyri

Alright, but I can't help imagining that pre- or non-biblical Yahwistic Jews viewed their own version of Judaism as normative. And whether they lost out to Jews like Jeremiah writing in the 600's BCE or to Jews writing in Greek times, the end result is the kind of Judaism(s) we see today. And if it ...
by John2
Sat Nov 19, 2022 4:16 pm
Forum: Jewish Texts and History
Topic: The Elephantine Papyri
Replies: 26
Views: 394

Re: The Elephantine Papyri

As far as when the Torah/OT was written in light of the Elephantine Papyri goes, if it happened in Greek times I still don't see how it matters. Jews do things in the Papyri that some Jews do in the OT (multiple altars and gods, buying and selling on the Sabbath, etc.). It may not be regarded as an...
by John2
Sat Nov 19, 2022 3:48 pm
Forum: Jewish Texts and History
Topic: The Elephantine Papyri
Replies: 26
Views: 394

Re: The Elephantine Papyri

As far as when the Torah/OT was written in light of the Elephantine Papyri goes, if it happened in Greek times I still don't see how it matters. Jews do things in the Papyri that some Jews do in the OT (multiple altars and gods, buying and selling on the Sabbath, etc.). It may not be regarded as an ...
by John2
Sat Nov 19, 2022 2:53 pm
Forum: Jewish Texts and History
Topic: The Elephantine Papyri
Replies: 26
Views: 394

Re: The Elephantine Papyri

So the comments about whether this polytheistic, non-sabbath observant Yah worship at multiple temples was a form of Judaism misses the point of my research. I personally prefer to call this pre-Hellenistic religious worship Yahwism (which is accurate) rather than Judaism (which in common usage mea...
by John2
Sat Nov 19, 2022 1:56 pm
Forum: Jewish Texts and History
Topic: The Elephantine Papyri
Replies: 26
Views: 394

Re: The Elephantine Papyri

I appreciate everyone's comments so far and am taking everything into consideration and will respond to them as I am able. And after sleeping on it, I think this thread is really more about whether or not the religion in the Elephantine Papyri is a kind of Judaism rather than trying to unravel Gmiik...
by John2
Fri Nov 18, 2022 9:47 pm
Forum: Jewish Texts and History
Topic: The Elephantine Papyri
Replies: 26
Views: 394

Re: The Elephantine Papyri

The conspicuous absence of burnt offerings in all the subsequent letters is seen as significant. But the letter says that burnt offerings were made until the 14th year of Darius. That they ended due to Persian influence is another matter. I think you said you don't have a background in reading anci...
by John2
Fri Nov 18, 2022 8:07 pm
Forum: Jewish Texts and History
Topic: The Elephantine Papyri
Replies: 26
Views: 394

Re: The Elephantine Papyri

The burnt offerings in the 1917 article you linked to need to be seen in the context of the whole of the correspondence from Elephantine. The later correspondence apparently deliberately excludes any mention of burnt offerings and there has to be a reason. The reason suggested by scholars like Krat...