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by Giuseppe
Wed Oct 20, 2021 11:22 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Turmel: Jesus undertook to do in Palestine what, fifteen centuries later, Joan of Arc did in France
Replies: 1
Views: 46

Turmel: Jesus undertook to do in Palestine what, fifteen centuries later, Joan of Arc did in France

Les rêcits et les oracles évangéliques se rangent en deux groupes qui se contredisent, dont l'un seul peut être historique, dont l'autre appartien nécessairement au domaine de la fiction. Et l'oeil exercé a vite fait d'identifier ces groupes dont l'un est occupé exclusivement par les fictions. Fict...
by Giuseppe
Tue Oct 19, 2021 11:37 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Dave Allen arguing for a genuine Testimonium Flavianum: a criticism
Replies: 47
Views: 1501

Re: Dave Allen arguing for a genuine Testimonium Flavianum: a criticism

Eisenman pointed out this 'coincidence', also. So a commenter of his book on Amazon: A Samaritan Messiah described as "the son of Joseph" also seemed to have existed (pp.101-106) and was reportedly crucified by Pontius Pilate (see Eisenman's preface, p.xxiii). The author also points out th...
by Giuseppe
Tue Oct 19, 2021 12:01 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Dave Allen arguing for a genuine Testimonium Flavianum: a criticism
Replies: 47
Views: 1501

Re: Dave Allen arguing for a genuine Testimonium Flavianum: a criticism

My reluctance to accept a partially authentic negative TF derives from the presence of the passage about the Samaritan false prophet slain by Pilate, where we have the incredible "coincidence" of a "Messiah Son of Joseph" (remember that the Samaritans claimed to be "descenda...
by Giuseppe
Tue Oct 19, 2021 11:38 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Dave Allen arguing for a genuine Testimonium Flavianum: a criticism
Replies: 47
Views: 1501

Re: Dave Allen arguing for a genuine Testimonium Flavianum: a criticism

My correction: More precisely, Boistier thinks that originally Josephus had written only the cruel acts of Pilate against the Jews, followed by his final repression of the Samaritan tumult. Then, in a second moment, the Christians interpolated the episode of the antinomian Jew deceiver working in Ro...
by Giuseppe
Tue Oct 19, 2021 11:08 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Dave Allen arguing for a genuine Testimonium Flavianum: a criticism
Replies: 47
Views: 1501

Re: Dave Allen arguing for a genuine Testimonium Flavianum: a criticism

Another intriguing quote comes, via Dave, from Ivan Prchlík: ...Koestermann wondered whether, when describing the years of 29–31, thus somewhere in the lost book V, Tacitus had not mentioned even the crucifixion of Jesus. One possible hint he saw in Tacitus’ mention of Pilate lacking any specificati...
by Giuseppe
Tue Oct 19, 2021 8:12 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Dave Allen arguing for a genuine Testimonium Flavianum: a criticism
Replies: 47
Views: 1501

Re: Dave Allen arguing for a genuine Testimonium Flavianum: a criticism

Heinrich Hammer ( Traktat vom Samaritanermessias ) proposed that Tacitus was based yes on Josephus, only he reported in his own manner what he read about the Samaritan false prophet slain by Pilate. Note in particular what Josephus wrote: But Pilate prevented their going up, by seizing upon the road...
by Giuseppe
Tue Oct 19, 2021 7:06 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Dave Allen arguing for a genuine Testimonium Flavianum: a criticism
Replies: 47
Views: 1501

Re: Dave Allen arguing for a genuine Testimonium Flavianum: a criticism

Another point of relative interest is the following (I quote from Dave's article): Even so, there are still traces of the previous Acts of Pilate released by Emperor Maximin contained in the Gospel of Nicodemus. In one of these Pilate informs the Jews that Jesus heals by the god Asclepius: Pilate sa...
by Giuseppe
Tue Oct 19, 2021 6:45 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Dave Allen arguing for a genuine Testimonium Flavianum: a criticism
Replies: 47
Views: 1501

Re: Dave Allen arguing for a genuine Testimonium Flavianum: a criticism

What has intrigued me in Dave's article is his reference to Stephen C. Carlson's post: http://hypotyposeis.org/weblog/author/Hypotyposeis A more interesting reference to Carlson's view on the Testimonium Taciteum being based on the original Testimonium Flavianum is given here : I’m hooked on the Tes...
by Giuseppe
Tue Oct 19, 2021 6:22 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: How, according to Turmel, the marcionites named the Demiurge: never 'god'
Replies: 4
Views: 94

Re: How, according to Turmel, the marcionites named the Demiurge: never 'god'

So Marcionism came later but from some earlier just as dualistic source? correct. I (personally) would add: and gentile source. Matthew omits what Luke has "I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven" Matthew didn't retain this bit because it was too Marcionite? Correct. So Couchoud (fro...
by Giuseppe
Tue Oct 19, 2021 5:35 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: How, according to Turmel, the marcionites named the Demiurge: never 'god'
Replies: 4
Views: 94

Re: How, according to Turmel, the marcionites named the Demiurge: never 'god'

Why have I quoted this particular passage from Turmel's commentary? Because if Turmel is right that the marcionites didn't reserve for YHWH not even the title of (inferior) 'god', then the possibility that the Marcionism was an evolution from a more mitigated (=less dualistic) older ditheism evapora...