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by Giuseppe
Sat Nov 27, 2021 1:17 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: New thoughts on the Book of Revelation
Replies: 16
Views: 230

Re: New thoughts on the Book of Revelation

But a Jesus whose only noteworthy deed was to get crucified upon the Earth is not worthy of respect insofar as he is less obviously a saviour and did not give allegedly profound teachings. A seditious Jesus had to be a preacher , too, hence, put bluntly, you ca n't refer to Russell the view of &quo...
by Giuseppe
Sat Nov 27, 2021 12:43 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Evangelion of Marcion (as reconstructed by Wautier)
Replies: 18
Views: 316

Re: Evangelion of Marcion (as reconstructed by Wautier)

I very much wonder if Waultier has not mistaken commentary on known Marcionite doctrinal teaching, something Marcionite teachers would use in their hermeneutic explanation of scripture, for the text itself. Why? If we have Irenaeus who accused Marcion about his Christ saving the Genesiac Serpent, t...
by Giuseppe
Sat Nov 27, 2021 12:31 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Does the ʺearthly kingdomʺ hypothesis imply necessarily a historical Jesus?
Replies: 6
Views: 67

Re: Does the ʺearthly kingdomʺ hypothesis implies necessarily a historical Jesus?

I invite you to read Turmel's commentary on Paul. He claims that 'Satan' is for Paul a codeword for the Romans. I don't talk here about Philippians's Hymn or 1 Cor 2:6-11, since that text in my view places beyond any doubt the crucifixion in outer space, only it is probably a late Gnostic interpolat...
by Giuseppe
Fri Nov 26, 2021 10:00 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Does the ʺearthly kingdomʺ hypothesis imply necessarily a historical Jesus?
Replies: 6
Views: 67

Re: Does the ʺearthly kingdomʺ hypothesis implies necessarily a historical Jesus?

It is obvious the difference between modern apocalypticism and old apocalypticism. What escapes your attention is apparently that the early Christians expected that Jesus comes back to destroy all the Romans . While modern apocalypticists expect that Jesus comes back to destroy only generic "ev...
by Giuseppe
Fri Nov 26, 2021 9:53 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Evangelion of Marcion (as reconstructed by Wautier)
Replies: 18
Views: 316

Re: Evangelion of Marcion (as reconstructed by Wautier)

Wautier thinks that the earliest Gospel was written by Cerdon and it had as incipit the descent in Sheol, then misunderstood as "Capernaum". This Earliest Gospel ended with the Transfiguration episode, where Jesus completed his ascension to heaven of the highest god. The Transfiguration it...
by Giuseppe
Fri Nov 26, 2021 1:17 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Does the ʺearthly kingdomʺ hypothesis imply necessarily a historical Jesus?
Replies: 6
Views: 67

Does the ʺearthly kingdomʺ hypothesis imply necessarily a historical Jesus?

Although an increasing number of scholars dispute the parting of the ways between Jews and Christians in the first century, in my opinion there was an early parting of the ways , though very different from what other scholars examine. Israel at that time was divided into at least two different camp...
by Giuseppe
Fri Nov 26, 2021 9:38 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Evangelion of Marcion (as reconstructed by Wautier)
Replies: 18
Views: 316

Re: Evangelion of Marcion (as reconstructed by Wautier)

Note how the original incipit of Marcion, according to Wautier (in this influenced clearly by Georges Ory) has Jesus descended in the Sheol ( =="Capernaum" ), freeing the souls there: The fifteenth year of Tiberius' principate, Christ, descended from Heaven, appeared in Capernaum. Having t...
by Giuseppe
Fri Nov 26, 2021 9:27 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Evangelion of Marcion (as reconstructed by Wautier)
Replies: 18
Views: 316

Re: Evangelion of Marcion (as reconstructed by Wautier)

His book is published online here (not by him): http://hierosolis.overblog.com/comment-naquit-le-christianisme-a.-wautier What I have found in absolute more interesting is the explanation about how the celestial Jesus of Paul was euhmerized via a misunderstanding of 'Capernaum' (from a name to mean ...
by Giuseppe
Fri Nov 26, 2021 8:04 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: New thoughts on the Book of Revelation
Replies: 16
Views: 230

Re: New thoughts on the Book of Revelation

the only noteworthy thing that the historical Jesus did was get crucified - even though they argue this from different angles. This is surely true for Parvus, but for Gmirkin the case is different. I think, from personal communications, that he is not so minimalist. He seems to have found his histo...
by Giuseppe
Fri Nov 26, 2021 7:49 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: New thoughts on the Book of Revelation
Replies: 16
Views: 230

Re: New thoughts on the Book of Revelation

For what it is worth, Gmirkin and Parvus have together firmly pushed me into the historical Jesus camp Parvus's argument (based on the original Paul being different from the current Paul we know) seems to be to me more rational than Gmirkin's case based on Revelation (notoriously a book full of vis...