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by Giuseppe
Thu Oct 21, 2021 5:25 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Turmel on the Testimonium Flavianum
Replies: 4
Views: 141

Re: Turmel on the Testimonium Flavianum

neilgodfrey wrote: Thu Oct 21, 2021 4:44 am No library nearby with a photocopier/scanner?
I only go there to print documents of a more important nature.
As I have said, I will use my smartphone.
by Giuseppe
Thu Oct 21, 2021 4:25 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Turmel on the Testimonium Flavianum
Replies: 4
Views: 141

Re: Turmel on the Testimonium Flavianum

Can you copy and add this work to archive.org? I would like to upload it, only that I have not a scanner so the operation, by using only my smartphone, should require some time. At any case, it is a little pamphlet. I am expecting the 6 volumes of Turmel's Historie des dogmes , especially the volum...
by Giuseppe
Thu Oct 21, 2021 3:31 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Turmel on the Testimonium Flavianum
Replies: 4
Views: 141

Turmel on the Testimonium Flavianum

Tacite ( Annales 15,44) et Suétone ( Claudius 19) nous apprennent que le "Christ" a existé sous le règne de Tibère: rien de plus. Dans les Antiquités de Josèphe on lit un texte 18,33 qui contient un vif éloge de Jésus et où Jésus est présentè comme ressuscitant trois jours après sa condam...
by Giuseppe
Thu Oct 21, 2021 12:31 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Dave Allen: an analysis
Replies: 12
Views: 334

Re: Dave Allen: an analysis

Le Maguer talks in his book, as you know, about "reversal midrash" in action behind the anti-Christian parody of the Toledot Jeschu.
by Giuseppe
Thu Oct 21, 2021 12:24 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Dave Allen: an analysis
Replies: 12
Views: 334

Re: Dave Allen: an analysis

Can someone list other instances where a copyist changes the tone of a passage in order to suit his ideology: e.g. reading a negative portrayal of a figure whom the copyist adores and changing it to an adoring portrait, or reading a positive portrayal of a figure the copyist loathes and changing it...
by Giuseppe
Wed Oct 20, 2021 11:46 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Turmel: Jesus undertook to do in Palestine what, fifteen centuries later, Joan of Arc did in France
Replies: 13
Views: 229

Re: Turmel: Jesus undertook to do in Palestine what, fifteen centuries later, Joan of Arc did in France

Maybe, but that's a matter of preference. The question simply does no arise in my thinking. If we can know nothing about the author then that's the end of that. Well, on this point I would like to follow Carrier when he says that, given even only one change in our knowledge of background, we are ju...
by Giuseppe
Wed Oct 20, 2021 11:30 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Turmel: Jesus undertook to do in Palestine what, fifteen centuries later, Joan of Arc did in France
Replies: 13
Views: 229

Re: Turmel: Jesus undertook to do in Palestine what, fifteen centuries later, Joan of Arc did in France

But we don't find a Jesus like that after removing the Marcionite and Catholic layers in T's view. Read the normal sized font in italics in his letters at the end of the commentaries and there is no such Jesus to be found. True, but it also true that in whiletime we have added new knowledge (by rem...
by Giuseppe
Wed Oct 20, 2021 11:25 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Turmel: Jesus undertook to do in Palestine what, fifteen centuries later, Joan of Arc did in France
Replies: 13
Views: 229

Re: Turmel: Jesus undertook to do in Palestine what, fifteen centuries later, Joan of Arc did in France

If I understand you correctly, I think you are comparing T's paring down the epistles to find the "real Paul" with paring away the myth in the gospels to find the "real Jesus". Why do you use the term 'paring down' with reference to Paul ? I can understand you when you refer the...
by Giuseppe
Wed Oct 20, 2021 11:12 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Turmel: Jesus undertook to do in Palestine what, fifteen centuries later, Joan of Arc did in France
Replies: 13
Views: 229

Re: Turmel: Jesus undertook to do in Palestine what, fifteen centuries later, Joan of Arc did in France

I think you have read far more into my comment than I ever thought to express or at any time ever imagined. I was responding specifically, directly, solely and even explicitly to Turmel's seeing the historical Jesus as a Joan of Arc figure. But that view of the historical Jesus as a rebel (and in p...
by Giuseppe
Wed Oct 20, 2021 9:33 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Turmel: Jesus undertook to do in Palestine what, fifteen centuries later, Joan of Arc did in France
Replies: 13
Views: 229

Re: Turmel: Jesus undertook to do in Palestine what, fifteen centuries later, Joan of Arc did in France

I don't read Turmel in that way (i.e. by comparing him to the Christian apologist James McGrath), but rather in the way Roger Parvus has read Turmel, i.e. well exemplified by this RG Price's comment: Color me skeptical. Firstly, anyone claiming to be able to identify “the real Paul” is already an bi...