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by Giuseppe
Mon Dec 06, 2021 9:59 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Paul and the Vision of Isaiah
Replies: 42
Views: 523

Re: Paul and the Vision of Isaiah

Jean Magne has an entire paragraph where he argues that a particular matter where both Gnostics and Judaizers did efforts to find a form of compromise was the birth of Jesus by Mary, where both a birth and the docetism (note that also the birth by Holy Spirit is a subtle form of survived docetism) s...
by Giuseppe
Mon Dec 06, 2021 9:38 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Paul and the Vision of Isaiah
Replies: 42
Views: 523

Re: Paul and the Vision of Isaiah

Why is Isaiah the one who has the vision?
Turmel says that the Fourth Gospel ("none has ascended to heaven, but only the Son") is a reaction against Ascension of Isaiah.
by Giuseppe
Mon Dec 06, 2021 9:35 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Paul and the Vision of Isaiah
Replies: 42
Views: 523

Re: Paul and the Vision of Isaiah

More than a reaction, it would work as a harmonization: there is a birth, to satisfy growing catholicism, there is docetism, to satisfy Marcion Something of similar to Cerinthus's Christology: separationism and a higher god vs. the demiurge, but also a Jesus mere man son of Joseph and Mary and a pio...
by Giuseppe
Mon Dec 06, 2021 9:15 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Jesus was Famous Because He was Alleged to Have Said 'I will destroy [the temple of Jerusalem]' Before 70 CE
Replies: 11
Views: 213

Re: Jesus was Famous Because He was Alleged to Have Said 'I will destroy [the temple of Jerusalem]' Before 70 CE

I have heard a fool Christian apologist argue that Jesus couldn't be the Samaritan false prophet slain by Pilate because that Samaritan false prophet very probably wanted the destruction of the Temple of Jerusalem, while the historical Jesus was too much "a true Jew" for wanting something ...
by Giuseppe
Mon Dec 06, 2021 6:56 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: In Acts of Pilate, the 'prince of hell' is modelled on Pilate
Replies: 0
Views: 31

In Acts of Pilate, the 'prince of hell' is modelled on Pilate

The pattern is identical: Gospels Acts of Pilate Jesus is betrayed to Pilate Jesus is betrayed to hell The Jews accuse Jesus before Pilate Satan accuses Jesus before the "prince of hell" Pilate doesn't want to condemn Jesus, knowing his innocence The 'prince of hell' doesn't want to resis...
by Giuseppe
Mon Dec 06, 2021 6:02 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Paul and the Vision of Isaiah
Replies: 42
Views: 523

Re: Paul and the Vision of Isaiah

If "born by woman" is not an anti-marcionite bit, then nothing in the epistles can be considered anti-marcionite at all and the epistles are arrived to us totally genuine.

That it is an interpolation, all the past Mythicists agree, totally beyond any reference to outer space or less.
by Giuseppe
Mon Dec 06, 2021 4:09 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Paul and the Vision of Isaiah
Replies: 42
Views: 523

Re: Paul and the Vision of Isaiah

I would add, supporting the outer space crucifixion: 4. the specific distinction between Sheol and Hell. The Son is prohibited from going to Hell, his extreme place being the Sheol: this distinction makes much sense if the Sheol is placed in outer space above the earth, while the Hell is placed unde...
by Giuseppe
Sun Dec 05, 2021 10:10 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Paul and the Vision of Isaiah
Replies: 42
Views: 523

Re: Paul and the Vision of Isaiah

Note that if Asc. Of Isaiah is related to Revelation (as conceded by Norelli, too), then just as Revelation is against Gnostic Nicolaites, so also Asc. Of Isaiah has Gnostic enemies in view.
by Giuseppe
Sun Dec 05, 2021 10:05 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Paul and the Vision of Isaiah
Replies: 42
Views: 523

Re: Paul and the Vision of Isaiah

Prof Arthur Droge argued for Ascension of Isaiah being reactionary against a previous Gnostic text and placing beyond any doubt the crucifixion in outer space. Just as 1 Cor 2:6-21 (=an interpolation from the same Gnostic sect).

He is probably correct, IMHO.
by Giuseppe
Sun Dec 05, 2021 1:26 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Pilate the Apostle?
Replies: 0
Views: 52

Pilate the Apostle?

Why was Pilate considered a Christian Apostle, possibly the First Apostle of Christ in Rome, even before Paul? The suspicion is that the goodness of Pilate is not a mere effect of an apology before Rome. But rather the contrary: that the assumed goodness of Pilate moved "Mark" (author) to ...