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by Giuseppe
Fri Nov 26, 2021 1:17 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Does the ʺearthly kingdomʺ hypothesis implies necessarily a historical Jesus?
Replies: 0
Views: 12

Does the ʺearthly kingdomʺ hypothesis implies necessarily a historical Jesus?

Although an increasing number of scholars dispute the parting of the ways between Jews and Christians in the first century, in my opinion there was an early parting of the ways , though very different from what other scholars examine. Israel at that time was divided into at least two different camp...
by Giuseppe
Fri Nov 26, 2021 9:38 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Evangelion of Marcion (as reconstructed by Wautier)
Replies: 13
Views: 237

Re: Evangelion of Marcion (as reconstructed by Wautier)

Note how the original incipit of Marcion, according to Wautier (in this influenced clearly by Georges Ory) has Jesus descended in the Sheol ( =="Capernaum" ), freeing the souls there: The fifteenth year of Tiberius' principate, Christ, descended from Heaven, appeared in Capernaum. Having t...
by Giuseppe
Fri Nov 26, 2021 9:27 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Evangelion of Marcion (as reconstructed by Wautier)
Replies: 13
Views: 237

Re: Evangelion of Marcion (as reconstructed by Wautier)

His book is published online here (not by him): http://hierosolis.overblog.com/comment-naquit-le-christianisme-a.-wautier What I have found in absolute more interesting is the explanation about how the celestial Jesus of Paul was euhmerized via a misunderstanding of 'Capernaum' (from a name to mean ...
by Giuseppe
Fri Nov 26, 2021 8:04 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: New thoughts on the Book of Revelation
Replies: 13
Views: 171

Re: New thoughts on the Book of Revelation

the only noteworthy thing that the historical Jesus did was get crucified - even though they argue this from different angles. This is surely true for Parvus, but for Gmirkin the case is different. I think, from personal communications, that he is not so minimalist. He seems to have found his histo...
by Giuseppe
Fri Nov 26, 2021 7:49 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: New thoughts on the Book of Revelation
Replies: 13
Views: 171

Re: New thoughts on the Book of Revelation

For what it is worth, Gmirkin and Parvus have together firmly pushed me into the historical Jesus camp Parvus's argument (based on the original Paul being different from the current Paul we know) seems to be to me more rational than Gmirkin's case based on Revelation (notoriously a book full of vis...
by Giuseppe
Fri Nov 26, 2021 7:15 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Dujardin against Turmel
Replies: 0
Views: 27

Dujardin against Turmel

I am expecting this book: https://www.maremagnum.com/uploads/item_image/image/723/grandeur-decadence-critique-c6bc53ed-95bd-4d01-b733-795f7e69bd68.jpeg I would like to see clear why, according to Dujardin: 1) Loisy's approach to the epistles is better than Turmel's approach 2) why, assuming Alfred L...
by Giuseppe
Fri Nov 26, 2021 3:50 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: New thoughts on the Book of Revelation
Replies: 13
Views: 171

Re: New thoughts on the Book of Revelation

In alternative, I assume that Russell raises the following argument pro-historicity based on Mark being an anti-Vespasian propaganda: 1) The Vespasian propaganda makes Vespasian the Messiah 2) The Gospel propaganda makes Jesus both the anti-Vespasian and the true Messiah in opposition to the false M...
by Giuseppe
Fri Nov 26, 2021 3:39 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: New thoughts on the Book of Revelation
Replies: 13
Views: 171

Re: New thoughts on the Book of Revelation

Apparently in order to support a historicist view, Russell writes: Large groups of people believe and promote the most unbelievable ideas. As a relevant example, America is currently in the grips of an autocratic / neo-fascist movement seeking to undermine American democratic institutions that is fu...
by Giuseppe
Fri Nov 26, 2021 3:28 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: New thoughts on the Book of Revelation
Replies: 13
Views: 171

Re: New thoughts on the Book of Revelation

On a point I see that Russell and Greg are going to introduce a new argument for historicity: Both assume, in Russell's words, I think conquest and the establishment of an earthly kingdom of God (theocracy) was always the agenda. This was the charge for which the Romans crucified Jesus (although his...
by Giuseppe
Fri Nov 26, 2021 3:09 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: New thoughts on the Book of Revelation
Replies: 13
Views: 171

Re: New thoughts on the Book of Revelation

Russell's "proof" of the historicity based on Revelation seems to be something as: 1) the two witnesses are followers of the Lamb hence they emulate the fate of the Lamb 2) the Lamb is said to be "crucified" on the earth in the same place where his followers were crucified after ...