Search found 2056 matches

by rgprice
Fri Mar 29, 2024 1:58 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: According to Irenaeus, who were the Gnostics?
Replies: 17
Views: 221

Re: According to Irenaeus, who were the Gnostics?

Just want to point out that wile Irenaeus railed against these people who claimed to have attained "perfect knowledge" of God, he also claims that the Gospels he possessed were written by people with "perfect knowledge". We have learned from none others the plan of our salvation,...
by rgprice
Thu Mar 28, 2024 5:03 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: How the Gospels got their attributions...
Replies: 0
Views: 24

How the Gospels got their attributions...

When it comes to the four canonical Gospels we of course know their names, the Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. All of the orthodox claims about where these Gospels came from and who wrote them are extremely consistent, to the degree that it appears really one person came up with an explanat...
by rgprice
Thu Mar 28, 2024 3:19 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Ian Mills's "external evidence" that Luke preceded Marcion
Replies: 23
Views: 450

Re: Ian Mills's "external evidence" that Luke preceded Marcion

also Klinghardt assumes that canonical Luke knew Matthew so I am not opposed to the idea. If we accept also that canonical Luke knew and used Matthew, then that places all three synoptic gospels before c. 130 CE. Not at all. If anything Matthew used Luke, and there is tons of evidence to support th...
by rgprice
Thu Mar 28, 2024 7:59 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: According to Irenaeus, who were the Gnostics?
Replies: 17
Views: 221

Re: According to Irenaeus, who were the Gnostics?

What I'm saying is that I think understanding "Gnostics" has to do with the origins of the cult as a mystery religion, that then "escaped" into the wild. Irenaeus and Justin are, I think, late commers who were never a part of the mystical origins of the cult. Why were there so ma...
by rgprice
Thu Mar 28, 2024 3:58 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: According to Irenaeus, who were the Gnostics?
Replies: 17
Views: 221

Re: According to Irenaeus, who were the Gnostics?

the two biggest problems that Irenaeus had were Valentinians and Marcionites. Perhaps, but I always considered the Marcosians to be one of Irenaeus' biggest targets. As for "gnosticism", I do think that this whole thing can be traced back to some sort of Hellenistic or Roman mystery relig...
by rgprice
Wed Mar 27, 2024 4:48 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Ian Mills's "external evidence" that Luke preceded Marcion
Replies: 23
Views: 450

Re: Ian Mills's "external evidence" that Luke preceded Marcion

I don't find Mills' case convincing, regarding widespread use of canonical Luke prior to Marcion. Unfortunately the sources we have to work from are what they are, but they can hardly be said to be definitive. Necessarily, most of Mills cites is from the 3rd century or later. Even if Clement says th...
by rgprice
Wed Mar 27, 2024 3:00 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: What is implied if Jesus' historicity was not doubted?
Replies: 17
Views: 318

Re: Any pre-325 CE writings where Jesus' historicity was doubted?

GD's question has merit, its perfectly fine to catalogue such statements. I think a more pertinent question, however, is whether there was anyone who expressed any knowledge of a Jesus person independent of the Gospel accounts. To my knowledge there is no evidence for any such person. Every statemen...
by rgprice
Tue Mar 26, 2024 12:17 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Any pre-325 CE writings where Jesus' historicity was doubted?
Replies: 36
Views: 657

Re: Any pre-325 CE writings where Jesus' historicity was doubted?

@Peter I'm not sure why you didn't move your own post above to the other thread... But anyway, Irenaeus seems to be saying that there are Christian "heretics" who teach that Christ taking on human form was "imaginary". Irenaeus seems to be confused here. It would seem that what t...
by rgprice
Tue Mar 26, 2024 11:43 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: What is implied if Jesus' historicity was not doubted?
Replies: 17
Views: 318

Re: Any pre-325 CE writings where Jesus' historicity was doubted?

I would just add, likewise, that even without such biases in the documentary record, we also don't find examples of people claiming that the Sibyls never existed either, or really hundreds or thousands of figures which it is ow widely assumed, never existed. It's relevant to mention in this context...
by rgprice
Tue Mar 26, 2024 11:31 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: What is implied if Jesus' historicity was not doubted?
Replies: 17
Views: 318

Re: Any pre-325 CE writings where Jesus' historicity was doubted?

No Jewish or Persian text has questioned the existence of Esther, who was presented as the wife of the great Emperor Xerxes. Yet there is no debate about Esther's non-historicity. If you can invent an emperor's wife without any historian questioning her existence, then you can easily invent a Galil...