Search found 621 matches

by rgprice
Sat Oct 16, 2021 1:51 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Where Does the Christos Myth come from?
Replies: 3
Views: 146

Re: Where Does the Christos Myth come from?

I think that the Jesus Christ we recognize all started with the writing of the Gospels. In other words that the writing came first and the writings are what spurred belief in all this. As for what Paul was talking about, I think that if not for the Gospels Paul's writing never would have led to beli...
by rgprice
Sat Oct 16, 2021 3:03 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Why did the Gnostics use Paul and Gospels?
Replies: 37
Views: 751

Re: Why did the Gnostics use Paul and Gospels?

I have my own crazy theory of Christian origins, which is my "magic heavenly Jesus" theory. As soon as Jesus was thought to be in heaven AND COULD BE SUCCESSFULLY INVOKED for magical healings and prophecies, various groups started doing just that. These were both Jewish and pagan groups, ...
by rgprice
Fri Oct 15, 2021 5:51 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Origen on John: "Without Him was nothing made... of what is in the earth and the creation."
Replies: 10
Views: 283

Re: Origen on John: "Without Him was nothing made... of what is in the earth and the creation."

@MrMacSon What I'm saying is, that Tertullian misunderstood or was misrepresenting that Marcion said. I'll quote BeDuhn instead: The little that we know factually is that Marcion charged that “the gospel” adhered to by members of the Christian community in Rome was not authentic, that it diverged fr...
by rgprice
Fri Oct 15, 2021 2:44 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Why did the Gnostics use Paul and Gospels?
Replies: 37
Views: 751

Re: Why did the Gnostics use Paul and Gospels?

Well, having thought more about this, let me put this forward: God-fearers/worshipers of Theos Hypsistos, had been around and been involved in the worship of the Jewish God and the use of the Jewish scriptures since at least the end of the second century BCE. Prior to the First Jewish-Roman War, the...
by rgprice
Fri Oct 15, 2021 2:15 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Origen on John: "Without Him was nothing made... of what is in the earth and the creation."
Replies: 10
Views: 283

Re: Origen on John: "Without Him was nothing made... of what is in the earth and the creation."

I don't think that you've re-presented or represented what Vinzent thinks or proposes. 1 It's not Marcion's Antithesis/Antitheses that Vinzent thinks was leaked to the public: Vinzent thinks it was just the gospel Marcion had which was leaked (whether Marcion wrote it is beside the point here). 2 S...
by rgprice
Fri Oct 15, 2021 10:25 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Origen on John: "Without Him was nothing made... of what is in the earth and the creation."
Replies: 10
Views: 283

Re: Origen on John: "Without Him was nothing made... of what is in the earth and the creation."

As to John 1:12-13, I clearly see the concept of being "born again" as well as the concepts of rising from Hylic to Psychic and from Psychic to Pneumatic within these verses. Ahh, seemingly, BUT, where does the idea of being "born again" come from? This is also a later Catholic ...
by rgprice
Fri Oct 15, 2021 9:36 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Origen on John: "Without Him was nothing made... of what is in the earth and the creation."
Replies: 10
Views: 283

Re: Origen on John: "Without Him was nothing made... of what is in the earth and the creation."

I disagree with Vinzent's reading of Papias and Tertullian. Vinzent reads passages such as the following from Tertullian and takes them at face value: Of the apostles, therefore, John and Matthew first instil faith into us; while of apostolic men, Luke and Mark renew it afterwards. These all start w...
by rgprice
Fri Oct 15, 2021 3:00 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Origen on John: "Without Him was nothing made... of what is in the earth and the creation."
Replies: 10
Views: 283

Origen on John: "Without Him was nothing made... of what is in the earth and the creation."

Firstly, multiple church fathers note that the "Gospel of John" was heavily used by various Gnostics. In his commentary on John, Origen discusses some of their interpretations of the Gospel. In one particular section he notes an alterative reading of the prologue by Heracleon. It reads: ht...
by rgprice
Thu Oct 14, 2021 12:10 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Why did the Gnostics use Paul and Gospels?
Replies: 37
Views: 751

Re: Why did the Gnostics use Paul and Gospels?

I don't think Paul and the first Gospels were created by Gnostics. I wonder why they took any interest in them, at a time when they were apparently more interested in them than anyone else? I think that even if you read a reconstruction of Marcion's Gospel and Pauline letters, the Judaism in them st...
by rgprice
Thu Oct 14, 2021 11:13 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Why did the Gnostics use Paul and Gospels?
Replies: 37
Views: 751

Re: Why did the Gnostics use Paul and Gospels?

Marcion Valentinus et al were seeking to reinterpret the existing Christian message, not proclaim an entirely new one. (Some Sethian groups may have been much less in dialogue with preexisting Christianity but that is another matter.) Andrew Criddle My contention is that orthodox Christianity didn'...