Search found 4023 matches

by neilgodfrey
Thu Oct 21, 2021 4:44 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Turmel on the Testimonium Flavianum
Replies: 5
Views: 292

Re: Turmel on the Testimonium Flavianum

Can you copy and add this work to archive.org? I would like to upload it, only that I have not a scanner so the operation, by using only my smartphone, should require some time. At any case, it is a little pamphlet. I am expecting the 6 volumes of Turmel's Historie des dogmes , especially the volum...
by neilgodfrey
Thu Oct 21, 2021 4:17 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Turmel on the Testimonium Flavianum
Replies: 5
Views: 292

Re: Turmel on the Testimonium Flavianum

Tacite ( Annales 15,44) et Suétone ( Claudius 19) nous apprennent que le "Christ" a existé sous le règne de Tibère: rien de plus. Dans les Antiquités de Josèphe on lit un texte 18,33 qui contient un vif éloge de Jésus et où Jésus est présentè comme ressuscitant trois jours après sa condam...
by neilgodfrey
Wed Oct 20, 2021 11:53 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Turmel: Jesus undertook to do in Palestine what, fifteen centuries later, Joan of Arc did in France
Replies: 13
Views: 312

Re: Turmel: Jesus undertook to do in Palestine what, fifteen centuries later, Joan of Arc did in France

Well, at the cost of begging the issue in a grotesque way :oops: , it is not a mystery in this forum that for me the authenticity of 1 Corinthians 2:6-8 implies tout court mythicism. I agree, but I thought you were addressing the question of the historical Paul. But I don't want to be like the apol...
by neilgodfrey
Wed Oct 20, 2021 11:48 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Turmel: Jesus undertook to do in Palestine what, fifteen centuries later, Joan of Arc did in France
Replies: 13
Views: 312

Re: Turmel: Jesus undertook to do in Palestine what, fifteen centuries later, Joan of Arc did in France

But we don't find a Jesus like that after removing the Marcionite and Catholic layers in T's view. Read the normal sized font in italics in his letters at the end of the commentaries and there is no such Jesus to be found. True, but it also true that in whiletime we have added new knowledge (by rem...
by neilgodfrey
Wed Oct 20, 2021 11:39 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Turmel: Jesus undertook to do in Palestine what, fifteen centuries later, Joan of Arc did in France
Replies: 13
Views: 312

Re: Turmel: Jesus undertook to do in Palestine what, fifteen centuries later, Joan of Arc did in France

Why do you use the term 'paring down' with reference to Paul ? I can understand you when you refer the expression 'paring down' to the rationalizations applied on the Gospels, but when I remove from Paul, as marcionite interpolation, his claim about the rulers of this age crucifying Jesus in outer ...
by neilgodfrey
Wed Oct 20, 2021 11:25 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Turmel: Jesus undertook to do in Palestine what, fifteen centuries later, Joan of Arc did in France
Replies: 13
Views: 312

Re: Turmel: Jesus undertook to do in Palestine what, fifteen centuries later, Joan of Arc did in France

Turmel pares back what he sees as layers that have intruded into Paul's letters and is left with what is in those letters: Paul's original words. But to find a Joan of Arc Jesus figure one has to pare back Paul and the gospels and in the empty space deposit one's imagined Joan of Arc Jesus figure. O...
by neilgodfrey
Wed Oct 20, 2021 11:16 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Turmel: Jesus undertook to do in Palestine what, fifteen centuries later, Joan of Arc did in France
Replies: 13
Views: 312

Re: Turmel: Jesus undertook to do in Palestine what, fifteen centuries later, Joan of Arc did in France

But that view of the historical Jesus as a rebel (and in primis the same historicity of Jesus) would descend, according to Turmel (obviously not based only on his quoted passage above), from what is left in Paul once we remove all the marcionite and catholic interpolations: a Paul follower of a Chr...
by neilgodfrey
Wed Oct 20, 2021 11:13 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Turmel: Jesus undertook to do in Palestine what, fifteen centuries later, Joan of Arc did in France
Replies: 13
Views: 312

Re: Turmel: Jesus undertook to do in Palestine what, fifteen centuries later, Joan of Arc did in France

The conclusion of the Turmel's commentary on Paul is that, by removing from the epistles all the fool mysticism (of marcionite and proto-catholic origin) the historical Paul was just "a rational man of valid concerns who was taking a reasoned approach to try to expand the audience for Christia...
by neilgodfrey
Wed Oct 20, 2021 11:01 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Turmel: Jesus undertook to do in Palestine what, fifteen centuries later, Joan of Arc did in France
Replies: 13
Views: 312

Re: Turmel: Jesus undertook to do in Palestine what, fifteen centuries later, Joan of Arc did in France

I don't read Turmel in that way (i.e. by comparing him to the Christian apologist James McGrath), but rather in the way Roger Parvus has read Turmel, i.e. well exemplified by this RG Price's comment: I think you have read far more into my comment than I ever thought to express or at any time ever i...
by neilgodfrey
Wed Oct 20, 2021 7:38 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Dave Allen: an analysis
Replies: 12
Views: 448

Re: Dave Allen: an analysis

Can someone list other instances where a copyist changes the tone of a passage in order to suit his ideology: e.g. reading a negative portrayal of a figure whom the copyist adores and changing it to an adoring portrait, or reading a positive portrayal of a figure the copyist loathes and changing it...