Search found 309 matches

by Chris Hansen
Thu Jun 23, 2022 2:07 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Definitive evidence that Marcion knew no Pilate at all
Replies: 13
Views: 221

Re: Definitive evidence that Marcion knew no Pilate at all

Paul doesn't say anything about extinction... again, this is you reading more into the text than what is there. I don't think 1 Timothy was written by Paul at all. I have very little interest in the deutero-Pauline epistles. That said, I really don't think it is anti-Marcionite. I'm not sure what ab...
by Chris Hansen
Thu Jun 23, 2022 12:12 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Definitive evidence that Marcion knew no Pilate at all
Replies: 13
Views: 221

Re: Definitive evidence that Marcion knew no Pilate at all

Come on, Chris: 1 Thess 2:14-16 can't be genuine, because the verse " The wrath of God has come upon them at last " alludes to a political "wrath", materialized by Hadrian's legions destroying the last revolt. In Paul's (traditional) time, there was no echo of Judea going to be ...
by Chris Hansen
Thu Jun 23, 2022 10:12 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Definitive evidence that Marcion knew no Pilate at all
Replies: 13
Views: 221

Re: Definitive evidence that Marcion knew no Pilate at all

Or... and here me out. We go with the much simpler and non-conspiratorial solution to this which is: 1 Thess 2:14-16 is authentic, hence why Marcion has it, and this whole Pilate business of yours is just blown out of the water from an argument from silence... which it is. Pilate is silent about alm...
by Chris Hansen
Thu Jun 23, 2022 8:59 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Definitive evidence that Marcion knew no Pilate at all
Replies: 13
Views: 221

Re: Definitive evidence that Marcion knew no Pilate at all

You've misunderstood the passage. The prophets are not the killers. Paul is accusing his Jewish contemporaries of 'killing the Lord Jesus and their prophets". That does not mean he did not think Pilate had no involvement. This is just an argument from silence on a short passage. While I don't r...
by Chris Hansen
Thu Jun 23, 2022 8:18 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: The Seed in Romans 1:3 and Elsewhere
Replies: 94
Views: 1941

Re: The Seed in Romans 1:3 and Elsewhere

Meh. Not necessarily conclusive. It is better to say "it comes up in discussions of Marcion." That's about all. Tertullian objects to Marcion's reading and their own prophets (as distinct from and the prophets ) This doesn't make sense unless Tertullian was convinced there was a version o...
by Chris Hansen
Thu Jun 23, 2022 8:16 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: The Seed in Romans 1:3 and Elsewhere
Replies: 94
Views: 1941

Re: The Seed in Romans 1:3 and Elsewhere

Secret Alias wrote: Thu Jun 23, 2022 8:10 am Meh. Not necessarily conclusive. It is better to say "it comes up in discussions of Marcion." That's about all.
What's your opinion on Rom. 1:3 and Gal. 4:4 then?
by Chris Hansen
Thu Jun 23, 2022 4:53 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: The Seed in Romans 1:3 and Elsewhere
Replies: 94
Views: 1941

Re: The Seed in Romans 1:3 and Elsewhere

So firstly... Paul does not use gennao for "birth" 97 times. Laurie appears to have just consulted a Strong's Concordance and mistaken the total number of occurrences in the entire New Testament for Paul. The entirety of the New Testament uses it 97 times, most of the time in the Gospels (...
by Chris Hansen
Tue Jun 21, 2022 6:26 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: The Seed in Romans 1:3 and Elsewhere
Replies: 94
Views: 1941

Re: The Seed in Romans 1:3 and Elsewhere

nothing Paul says in 1 Thess 2:14-16 is particularly alarming to me anymore. At best, the one and only thing that may be an interpolation is "wrath has come upon them at last" but even that I tend to think is authentic. Mythicist Harold Leidner thinks that the passage of 1 Thess 2:14-16 i...
by Chris Hansen
Tue Jun 21, 2022 6:23 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: The Seed in Romans 1:3 and Elsewhere
Replies: 94
Views: 1941

Re: The Seed in Romans 1:3 and Elsewhere

Where I'm at is that interpolations are a subjective issue at best, and too often based in defective evidence, i.e., like Marcion or Church Father preservation of other sects. We can probably get into a philosophical discussion of what constitutes an objective as opposed to subjective claims: certa...
by Chris Hansen
Mon Jun 20, 2022 6:37 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: The Seed in Romans 1:3 and Elsewhere
Replies: 94
Views: 1941

Re: The Seed in Romans 1:3 and Elsewhere

1. Because the few quotes we have point to the texts that we know. The reason the reconstructions are unreliable is because we only have fragmentary and partial quotations, and we do not know if those quotations survived corruption or stylistic concerns of the Church Fathers. 2. I doubt it since I d...