Search found 760 matches

by dbz
Mon Mar 06, 2023 7:55 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Why I think a historical Jesus is best explanation for earliest texts
Replies: 233
Views: 29267

Re: Why I think a historical Jesus is best explanation for earliest texts

It’s the same with the Jesus story, only more so. It was a local story, a small time event that only mattered to a small circle of believers, but it grew over time. Much of the story was dubious, but professional historians could look at the legends that arose over time and infer back to a reasonab...
by dbz
Sun Mar 05, 2023 9:51 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Why I think a historical Jesus is best explanation for earliest texts
Replies: 233
Views: 29267

Re: Why I think a historical Jesus is best explanation for earliest texts

"If there was a historical Jesus, then he was nothing like the Gospels". And that's fine. A historical Jesus, if one existed, almost certainly wasn't like the Gospel Jesus. Then: "Early Christians like Paul don't refer to Gospel-like events when talking about Jesus, so the lack of Go...
by dbz
Sun Mar 05, 2023 5:57 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Why I think a historical Jesus is best explanation for earliest texts
Replies: 233
Views: 29267

Re: Why I think a historical Jesus is best explanation for earliest texts

"Which Historical Jesus Makes The Most Sense? Dr. Richard Carrier" . YouTube . I don’t think we are ignoring the possibility the Gospels record oral lore. We simply have no reason to believe it—and every reason to disbelieve it. We’ve moved on. Scholarship needs to join us. Because until ...
by dbz
Sun Mar 05, 2023 11:19 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: The Real Paul
Replies: 3
Views: 557

Re: The Real Paul

Was Paul, Hellenized Jewish Sub-Culture per a "Jewish apocalyptic ascent framework"? Cf. Jewish apocalypses: 1 Enoch, 4 Ezra, 2 Baruch and the Christian book of Revelation. Does placing Paul in this literary and historical context confirm his place as an apocalyptic thinker? Was Paul engag...
by dbz
Sun Mar 05, 2023 10:34 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Podcast Why Jesus Most Likely Existed, Tim O'Neill
Replies: 72
Views: 8184

Re: Podcast Why Jesus Most Likely Existed, Tim O'Neill

If Justin knew 'gospels', I'm not sure we can know what versions or 'editions' he knew. So, I propose use of less 'certain' language about the nature of the 'sources' Justin might have known or used. eg. Less use of the as in avoid ‘the definitive article’ And, where there is 'confluence' or ‘corre...
by dbz
Sun Mar 05, 2023 8:59 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Podcast Why Jesus Most Likely Existed, Tim O'Neill
Replies: 72
Views: 8184

Re: Podcast Why Jesus Most Likely Existed, Tim O'Neill

FYI searching in a tag: Results will be only posts with the tag justin-martyr and containing the phrase gospel . https://vridar.org/tag/justin-martyr/?s=gospel Josephus, Louis M. Feldman, wrote thirty years earlier, presumably without any conscious awareness of a Christ Myth debate, the following: A...
by dbz
Sat Mar 04, 2023 5:57 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Podcast Why Jesus Most Likely Existed, Tim O'Neill
Replies: 72
Views: 8184

Re: Podcast Why Jesus Most Likely Existed, Tim O'Neill

“Mythicism Dismantled by Tim O’Neil of History for Atheists | Response to David Fitzgerald” . YouTube . Reason to Doubt. 22 December 2022. “Does THIS Passage Prove Jesus Historically Existed? ft. Tim O’Neill” . YouTube . Godless Engineer. 16 February 2023. Cf. “O’Neill-Fitzgerald Debate” . Vridar ....
by dbz
Sat Mar 04, 2023 3:28 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Podcast Why Jesus Most Likely Existed, Tim O'Neill
Replies: 72
Views: 8184

Re: Podcast Why Jesus Most Likely Existed, Tim O'Neill

9.10 ... And then imagine that other forms of Christianity arose that believed those stories were true and accepted that there was such a Jesus in the early decades of the first century. And then imagine that the proto-form of Christianity died out and then imagine that the forms of Christianity th...
by dbz
Sat Mar 04, 2023 9:26 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Podcast Why Jesus Most Likely Existed, Tim O'Neill
Replies: 72
Views: 8184

Re: Podcast Why Jesus Most Likely Existed, Tim O'Neill

Justin tells us that his conversion to Christianity occurred through his reading of the Gospel stories... IMO, the Greek text of Justin is seldom translated in the correct context of Platonism_2.0. All translations from Latin are worthless as are most Greek to English translations. It is possible t...
by dbz
Thu Mar 02, 2023 5:46 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Podcast Why Jesus Most Likely Existed, Tim O'Neill
Replies: 72
Views: 8184

Re: Podcast Why Jesus Most Likely Existed, Tim O'Neill

The proper question is rather a largely literary question than an historical one. Until we have texts, which bear evidence of his historicity, we can not do much more with that issue. We can and must, however, ask what the texts mean—as well as ask what they mean if they are not historical (a minim...