Biblical Criticism & History Forum - earlywritings.com

You have asserted that 4Q171 is the earliest mention, but you have not shown that, nor dealt with earlier indications. If the Teacher is dead in the other writings that mention him (as I and others would argue), then 4Q171, where he is alive, would be earlier than the other writings about him. And ...

You have avoided my question about the earliest mention of the Teacher of Righteousness and/or the Wicked Priest. The earliest mention excludes your imagined preference. I've said a number of times already that I think 4Q171 is the earliest mention of the Teacher and the Wicked Priest, since the Te...

That you like one story over another is not a history research argument, and may even present a bias caution. I like a time period (the Herodian era) over another (Hasmonean), because I think that time period better fits the internal data. E.g. to my knowledge no Hasmoneans engaged in divorce, niec...

Again with the dates though. They are just estimates. What matters more to me is the internal data, and in the one text that clearly identifies Janneaus (1QpNah), neither the Teacher nor the Wicked Priest are mentioned, nor are they mentioned during Salome Alexandra's time.

StephenGoranson wrote: ↑Sat Aug 10, 2024 5:25 pm When were the Teacher of Righteousness or Wicked Priest mentioned
FIRST?

I would say the Psalms Pesher (4Q171), where the Teacher and Wicked Priest are alive (unlike 1QpHab, I would argue), which Lim dates up to 70 CE.

StephenGoranson wrote: ↑Sat Aug 10, 2024 5:12 pm
Plus, it's fragmentary.

All of the pesharim are fragmentary. Are you suggesting that all of the parts of 1QpNah that mentioned the Teacher (or that said "the Wicked Priest") happened to not survive?

Many conclude Pesher Nahum was penned in first century BCE. If you wish a later date, feel free to address chronology. Lim dates 1QpNah 60 to 30 BCE, and since the Teacher is not mentioned in it, nor is Jannaeus called the Wicked Priest in it, and since the pesharim that mention the Teacher and the...

Regarding 1QpNah, Ilan writes: In Column II [of 1QpNah] the exegesis turns [from Jannaeus] to chapter 3 of Nahum which it uses to describe the "government of the Seekers of Smooth Things" ... Column I had already made clear to us that the Seekers of Smooth Things were persecuted and execut...

The Teacher of Righteousness and the Wicked Priest were said to be contemporaries, who interacted. If the Wicked Priest, Jannaeus, was involved in crucifixions in 88 BCE, then these two were not NT figures. Chronology. But you haven't demonstrated to my satisfaction (in your paper or on this thread...

Another thing I think goes against the idea that Jannaeus was the Wicked Priest is that the one writing that clearly identifies him (1QpNah) does not call him the Wicked Priest and the Teacher is not mentioned in it at all. But the texts that mention the Wicked Priest also mention the Teacher. So wh...