Biblical Criticism & History Forum - earlywritings.com

Ben, You wrote: "I know he does cite Josephus, but, since he does not explicitly cite Josephus here, in this parallel to the TF, how do you rule out the possibility that, far from Justin tacitly relying on Josephus, the TF was actually composed as a summary of Christian beliefs that resembles w...

Ben, Regarding whether Justin's creedal statement was influenced by Josephus or Tacitus, I couldn't say if it was, but I know that he cites Josephus, and I don't know if he cites Tacitus. And if he doesn't cite the latter, then I would assume, if anything, he was influenced by the former. Also, rega...

Ben, You wrote: "...the passage in Justin Martyr was instrumental in changing my mind about the likelihood of the Testimonium being a forgery in its entirety." Do you mean (and correct me if I'm wrong) that you think that some form of the TF existed before Eusebius? Just curious. I wasn't ...

Peter, Thanks for the link concerning Justin Martyr, and I will consider the idea that creedal statements are generally similar across the board. Though I don't buy the idea that Josephus used Luke or that Luke and Josephus used a common source, it's the idea that Luke used Josephus in other cases t...

Peter, Thanks for the links. I didn't see anything in them concerning Justin Martyr, though I did find a reference via the second link that compares the TF to (among other things) "Dialogue," but this is said to refer to something called "Dialogue: Religious Dialogue at the Sassanid C...

toejam, I think Tacitus may have at least known of the writings of Josephus, because both of them mention the prophecy that foretold the rise of Vespasian and the heavenly signs that foretold the destruction of the Temple (cf. War 6.5.3-4 and Tacitus Hist. 5.13). The existence of the TF (and whether...

Stephan, It was nice to talk with you for awhile about what the DSS say. You were willing to indulge that for longer than I thought you would before mentioning the issue of carbon dating, and I appreciate it. Otherwise, I likewise can't prove that I am not Eisenman (or John T), but I'm not so the wh...

Stephan, The idea that Paul may have been the Liar came up on this thread because of the idea that Essenes = doers of the Torah in the DSS (as opposed to the Liar who rejected it). If proto-Jewish Christians were these 'doers' then it is relevant to talk about Paul given that he plays a similar role...

Stephan, All I mean is that in the time of Acts and in my time (and presumably in between) there have been people who say (for whatever reason) that Paul didn't mean to do away with the Torah but only interpretations of it, in the same way that you are suggesting the Liar did in the DSS. And I am sa...

Also, regarding James' statement in Acts 21:20 ("You see, brother, how many thousands of Jews have believed, and all of them are zealous for the law"), has anyone ever taken this to mean the law plus James' opinions?