Search found 8823 matches

by Ben C. Smith
Sun May 17, 2015 5:49 am
Forum: Academic Discussion
Topic: A brief note on Hebrews 12.3 (contradiction by sinners).
Replies: 12
Views: 12823

Re: A brief note on Hebrews 12.2-3 (contradiction by sinners

I do not see why and when sinful men would have shown hostility to the heavenly Christ in the past and then stop. Do you see why and when sinful men would have shown hostility to the heavenly God in the past (at Meribah) and then stopped (Psalm 105.32 LXX, referring back to Numbers 20.13)? It appea...
by Ben C. Smith
Sun May 17, 2015 5:41 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: A brief note on Hebrews 13.11-13 (camp and gate).
Replies: 41
Views: 40212

Re: A brief note on Hebrews 13.11-13 (camp and gate).

to Ben, Bernard, do you understand my point about the word gate in this metaphor? Do you agree that the word gate is not, in and of itself, a tip-off that a city is in mind? I think you are referring to that: Ben wrote: ... so Jesus suffered outside the camp; that is, he was (and still is) rejected...
by Ben C. Smith
Sat May 16, 2015 7:29 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: A brief note on Hebrews 13.11-13 (camp and gate).
Replies: 41
Views: 40212

Re: A brief note on Hebrews 13.11-13 (camp and gate).

Bernard, do you understand my point about the word gate in this metaphor? Do you agree that the word gate is not, in and of itself, a tip-off that a city is in mind?
by Ben C. Smith
Sat May 16, 2015 7:27 pm
Forum: Academic Discussion
Topic: A brief note on Hebrews 12.3 (contradiction by sinners).
Replies: 12
Views: 12823

Re: A brief note on Hebrews 12.2-3 (contradiction by sinners

Bernard, does the perfect tense of this participle mean, in and of itself, that Christ was on earth when he endured such things? Or does the on earth part come from other, external considerations?
by Ben C. Smith
Sat May 16, 2015 6:31 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: A brief note on Hebrews 13.11-13 (camp and gate).
Replies: 41
Views: 40212

Re: A brief note on Hebrews 13.11-13 (camp and gate).

I would just suggest, Ben, that the author wants to make the metaphor of the wilderness Tabernacle relevant to the heavenly Jerusalem and its temple where Jesus is the high priest. I agree that the author is making the metaphor relevant to other concepts in the epistle; in fact, this metaphor leads...
by Ben C. Smith
Sat May 16, 2015 6:29 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: A brief note on Hebrews 13.11-13 (camp and gate).
Replies: 41
Views: 40212

Re: A brief note about Hebrews 13.11-13

Doesn't the obvious sense of it as a simile/metaphor imply that Jesus suffered death after being rejected by his fellow Jews ? This would fit very well with the way it is used as an example for the recipients of the letter to the Hebrews. I think that depends on which elements of the word picture a...
by Ben C. Smith
Sat May 16, 2015 5:54 am
Forum: Academic Discussion
Topic: A brief note on Hebrews 12.3 (contradiction by sinners).
Replies: 12
Views: 12823

Re: A brief note on Hebrews 12.2-3 (contradiction by sinners

Can you show contradiction/opposition in this sense to someone without believing/acknowledging their existence ? If not, the passage implies that there were sinful people who disagreed with Christ but recognised him as a real being. I agree that the author seems to regard the sinners as treating Ch...
by Ben C. Smith
Fri May 15, 2015 8:36 pm
Forum: Academic Discussion
Topic: A brief note on Hebrews 12.3 (contradiction by sinners).
Replies: 12
Views: 12823

A brief note on Hebrews 12.3 (contradiction by sinners).

In part 3 of his supplementary article on the epistle to the Hebrews, entitled The Cosmic Christ of the Epistle to the Hebrews , Earl Doherty finds occasion to ward off a possible threat to a purely mythicist understanding of the epistle in 12.3. He quotes and comments on this verse and its immediat...
by Ben C. Smith
Fri May 15, 2015 7:48 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: A brief note on Hebrews 13.11-13 (camp and gate).
Replies: 41
Views: 40212

Re: A brief note about Hebrews 13.11-13

After discovering some more discussions online which seem to assume that the mention of the gate in Hebrews 13.12 stands out as odd or different somehow from the Israelite encampment and sacrificial protocols of the surrounding verses (some such assumptions even being made by mythicists keen to remo...
by Ben C. Smith
Fri May 15, 2015 7:53 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: A brief note on Hebrews 13.11-13 (camp and gate).
Replies: 41
Views: 40212

Re: A brief note about Hebrews 13.11-13

To Bernard's (repeated) assertion that this or that 'can't be true' because of X, Y or Z found in our copies of any given text. He forgets that Clement says that Paul wrote something and then 'Luke' (i.e. from the non-Catholic perspective the person who modified the heretical gospel in line with no...