Biblical Criticism & History Forum - earlywritings.com

Eusebius and Luke 24 19-27 explicitly refer to death. Justin and Josephus do not. Tacitus may be dubious depending on the implications of supplicio adfectus erat, To be clear, the passage from Justin of which I speak is actually two adjacent chapters of the Apology , 12 and 13. It is chapter 13 tha...

andrewcriddle wrote:If the passage was genuinely creedal I would expect an explicit reference to Jesus' death (compare the passage from Luke 24).

Which of the passages lacks an explicit reference to his death? Not sure which one you mean here.

Ben.

This is much appreciated, Tenorikuma. Thank you.

Ben, You wrote: "...the passage in Justin Martyr was instrumental in changing my mind about the likelihood of the Testimonium being a forgery in its entirety." Do you mean (and correct me if I'm wrong) that you think that some form of the TF existed before Eusebius? Just curious. I wasn't...

Peter Kirby wrote:Yes, well, the whole thing is silly.

Yes, your opinion on the matter is clear enough, certainly.

Ben.

Goldberg's idea is, essentially, stupid (let's be honest--we've let our brains go to mush if we think it's likely that Josephus based his account on the Gospel of Luke's resurrection chapter or vice-versa). To be clear, Goldberg proposed neither of these direct connections. He thought they both use...

Paul Hopper's thesis incidentally would explain this , as well as another 'parallel' in Justin Martyr.* Credal summaries would tend to be similar in outline. * http://www.textexcavation.com/testimonium.html For whatever it may be worth, the passage in Justin Martyr was instrumental in changing my m...

MrMacSon wrote:Ben, what do you mean by "undercutting the Testimonium altogether"?

I merely meant arguing or assuming that the Testimonium is, in its entirety, an interpolation. Prove that Josephus lacked the pericope altogether, and you have pretty much already proven that Tacitus did not use it.

Ben.

The best argument here is simply that the passage was not yet in Josephus to be read. I agree that undercutting the Testimonium altogether is the best argument against Tacitus having used it. However, I was attempting to comply with the spirit of the thread: In this thread, we're working on the ass...

Did Tacitus elect to call him Christ? That's not really clear. In an absolute sense, sure, that is not clear. But in an argumentative sense, if you are meaning to actually register an objection against the hypothesis (as if to say: surely Tacitus would have used the name of Jesus, instead of just c...