Search found 1036 matches

by Paul the Uncertain
Mon Jun 26, 2023 3:08 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Review of Carrier's OHJ, Part 10 of 17: Section 6.4 Hegesippus and tales about the family of Jesus
Replies: 12
Views: 867

Re: Review of Carrier's OHJ, Part 10 of 17: Section 6.4 Hegesippus and tales about the family of Jesus

Carrier tends to call any story with an arc about Jesus' life and death a "Gospel". But he isn't the only one to do that, and I honestly don't see it as a problem. For example, some call Chap 11 of Ascension of Isaiah is called a 'pocket Gospel'. Carrier also calls the "Star Gospel&q...
by Paul the Uncertain
Mon Jun 26, 2023 2:53 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Review of Carrier's OHJ, Part 11 of 17: Section 7.1 Acts of the Apostles and the Vanishing family of Jesus
Replies: 2
Views: 389

Re: Review of Carrier's OHJ, Part 11 of 17: Section 7.1 Acts of the Apostles and the Vanishing family of Jesus

Lo tech: I agree that Carrier has trouble keeping straight his "minimal historical Jesus" and "gospel Jesus." However, it seems to me the "histroicists' problem" specific to Acts is not so much that Mary and Pilate (and others) disappear, but rather that they disappear...
by Paul the Uncertain
Mon Jun 26, 2023 1:52 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Review of Carrier's OHJ, Part 10 of 17: Section 6.4 Hegesippus and tales about the family of Jesus
Replies: 12
Views: 867

Re: Review of Carrier's OHJ, Part 10 of 17: Section 6.4 Hegesippus and tales about the family of Jesus

I can't stop tangents, which are inevitable anyway and often a lot of fun. But I'll keep my responses to my OP's comments around Hegesippus and Carrier as much as possible. Fair enough, although I renew my call from the previous thread for some resolution of whether the star "gospel" actu...
by Paul the Uncertain
Mon Jun 26, 2023 1:15 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Why did Pauline gospel—gMark, not clearly deprecate the Torah law as did Paul?
Replies: 13
Views: 2257

Re: Why did Pauline gospel—gMark, not clearly deprecate the Torah law as did Paul?

Most of the male characters in gMark are Jewish and none are infants. How could circumcision be much of an issue in context? It was addressed in Acts. Could have been addressed in many ways, such as through questions with the "scribes and priests", etc. The principal setting of Acts occur...
by Paul the Uncertain
Sun Jun 25, 2023 2:58 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Why did Pauline gospel—gMark, not clearly deprecate the Torah law as did Paul?
Replies: 13
Views: 2257

Re: Why did Pauline gospel—gMark, not clearly deprecate the Torah law as did Paul?

A few issues: #1) We cannot claim to know why any writer made certain choices. There are many aspects of Pauline teaching. Even today, almost any given preacher will spin you a different version and emphasize different points. Fair enough. #2) The orthodox Pauline letters we have today are not orig...
by Paul the Uncertain
Sun Jun 25, 2023 2:45 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Review of Carrier's OHJ, Part 10 of 17: Section 6.4 Hegesippus and tales about the family of Jesus
Replies: 12
Views: 867

Re: Review of Carrier's OHJ, Part 10 of 17: Section 6.4 Hegesippus and tales about the family of Jesus

That some silent propter hoc was intended is possible, but is not an obligatory conclusion. really? For me there is no doubt that it is an obligatory conclusion. I think that Ken would agree. 8-) ADDENDA: Afterall, that is the precise difference between the historicist Olson and the historicist O'N...
by Paul the Uncertain
Sun Jun 25, 2023 9:19 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Review of Carrier's OHJ, Part 10 of 17: Section 6.4 Hegesippus and tales about the family of Jesus
Replies: 12
Views: 867

Re: Review of Carrier's OHJ, Part 10 of 17: Section 6.4 Hegesippus and tales about the family of Jesus

While I think there is unfinished business from the previous thread (whether or not the so-called star gospel has anything to do with a gospel), I could not help but laugh: And shortly after Vespasian besieged Judaea , taking them captive.[/box] Note that even Ken Olson would agree with Carrier that...
by Paul the Uncertain
Sun Jun 25, 2023 7:11 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Why did Pauline gospel—gMark, not clearly deprecate the Torah law as did Paul?
Replies: 13
Views: 2257

Re: Why did Pauline gospel—gMark, not clearly deprecate the Torah law as did Paul?

dbz wrote: Sun Jun 25, 2023 4:18 am If gMark is a Pauline gospel then it should of made it more clear to the the plebes that Torah law is not necessary for redemption NOW!
Perhaps the sense in which Mark might fairly be described as a "Pauline Gospel" isn't ideological, despite the guild consensus.
by Paul the Uncertain
Sun Jun 25, 2023 2:47 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: The Quest for the Unhistorical Jesus
Replies: 32
Views: 4362

Re: The Quest for the Unhistorical Jesus

Thomas Jefferson is said to have stricken out passages. ... Like, sure, we can make one-off comments and say Matthew's risen saints aren't historical. But has anyone had the stamina to do this comprehensively? Jefferson's project ( The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth , aka "The Jefferson ...
by Paul the Uncertain
Sat Jun 24, 2023 2:11 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Review of Carrier's OHJ, Part 9 of 17: Section 6.3 Ignatius and the Star Gospel
Replies: 16
Views: 1500

Re: Review of Carrier's OHJ, Part 9 of 17: Section 6.3 Ignatius and the Star Gospel

While the panegyric versus impossible star narrative question pends: the problem with Basilides is that then you have to see Basilides everywhere there is mention of "crucified/suffered under Pilate": in the Creed, in the Pastoral Epistle, in Ignatius, in Justin. In addition, Basilides kne...