Biblical Criticism & History Forum - earlywritings.com

i see where you are coming from
I see Marcion as coming after John and 1/2 John a bit of a later character, one iteration further down the line c 100 - 140
i don't see the John community being particularly pro-Paul like the Marcionites

It is not strange at all. The Clementine literature hammers John the Baptist as leader of a deviant sect! Since Revelation is from that side of the church it's no surprise it omits John the Baptist Revelation and the Clementine 'Judaiser' faction are related This is a case of multiple John's. The re...

Right, you picked up correctly on my sense Guiseppe, but we differ here I do think we are talking about 'Christ' as a concept with different names (sort of, see below) the reason 1 John invokes 'anti-Christ' is to deny his opponents 'Christ', but in doing so admits they do speak about 'Christ' but t...

I want to add one more thing before I call it a day (and mull over what Ben says above). Regardless of whether or not John the presbyter was a disciple of Jesus, Papias still got his information about Mark being a follower of Peter from other people who at least claimed to have known or been follow...

wasn't Aristion credited with one of the longer Mark endings? it seems reasonable to think him and presbyter John were later church leaders who never actually followed Jesus during his life and to further credit this John with the authorship of 1 John, which totally reads like a later church leader ...

i tend to see John the presbyter as a leader at the time of a merging of Pauline, 'Ebionite', and other churches under a more central structure in the late 1st century. I don't see it as a direct continuation of some more original, first church but a later in-gathering under different leaders. I thi...

John2, i'll be honest, when someone like Papias or some other obscure quote supports a pet theory of mine i'm the first to yank it out and see it as a highly prized gem. i've no intention of stopping doing that either! But really even someone as early as Papias is not especially reliable a witness. ...

why not take it further? The Gospel of Mark was the gospel produced by the 'John Mark' / 'Barnabas' church mission that was distinct from Paul's. The stuff in Acts and name dropping in Paul's letters are attempts to make them either seem closer, on the same page or recognise differences did exist bu...

Giuseppe, that Phillipians hymn ! never knew that before If you read 1 John, it is entirely about accepting the name Jesus for Christ and not other names eg "Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ" "And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Je...

SA, yes it's beyond obvious that there were divisions in the church from as early as we can see...