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by neilgodfrey
Sat Jul 16, 2016 4:16 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Horsley attacks consensus on Jewish apocalyptic literature
Replies: 38
Views: 11850

Re: Horsley attacks consensus on Jewish apocalyptic literatu

[ Again you fail to quote Collins. I'm hoping you won't look it up for yourself and that everyone else will be fooled by my baseless assertions. Or alternatively I don't see any point in quoting words when it is clear that you consistently misinterpret what you do read, forever reading your own bel...
by neilgodfrey
Wed Jul 13, 2016 12:02 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Mark and the Passover (for Neil).
Replies: 34
Views: 19654

Re: Mark and the Passover (for Neil).

I have tried to explain my concerns but obviously not clearly because the same inferences about my reasons keep recurring. I have no ideological or presumptive opposition to lost sources or oral transmission and I am at some loss to understand why you keep implying that I do. Well, especially with ...
by neilgodfrey
Tue Jul 12, 2016 11:54 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Horsley attacks consensus on Jewish apocalyptic literature
Replies: 38
Views: 11850

Re: Horsley attacks consensus on Jewish apocalyptic literatu

andrewcriddle wrote:
This need not imply the end of the world but it does imply very drastic changes to how the world operates.

Andrew Criddle
What does Collins say about this?
by neilgodfrey
Tue Jul 12, 2016 1:35 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Horsley attacks consensus on Jewish apocalyptic literature
Replies: 38
Views: 11850

Re: Horsley attacks consensus on Jewish apocalyptic literatu

Collins concludes, … the persecutions of Antiochus Epiphanes. In the light of that crisis, the tradents of the Daniel stories sought a new genre that could symbolize more fully the forces behind events – which seemed beyond human control – and could also articulate a hope that transcended what is p...
by neilgodfrey
Tue Jul 12, 2016 12:18 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Mark and the Passover (for Neil).
Replies: 34
Views: 19654

Re: Mark and the Passover (for Neil).

But as for the original question about form criticism -- it seems to me that there is a conflict between viewing the gospels as consisting of "pearls on a string" as distinct from narrative units. The former would deny the latter, I think. What if some parts of Mark originated as pearls o...
by neilgodfrey
Mon Jul 11, 2016 7:25 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Mark and the Passover (for Neil).
Replies: 34
Views: 19654

Re: Mark and the Passover (for Neil).

it also comes down to the sources and external circumstances surrounding the composition of the text ..... these sorts of questions are all useful for understanding the text's origins. It's not a black and white either it's a literary unity or a string of pearls. There is much more to literary criti...
by neilgodfrey
Mon Jul 11, 2016 7:21 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Mark and the Passover (for Neil).
Replies: 34
Views: 19654

Re: Mark and the Passover (for Neil).

We ought not to simply assume that canonical Mark was freewheeling from LXX themes and nothing more, or that Mark was the first gospel merely because earlier ones are not extant. We ought to be willing to dissect the story as well as treat it as a whole. This has never been my position -- "sim...
by neilgodfrey
Mon Jul 11, 2016 7:12 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: The Origins of Christianity
Replies: 345
Views: 186340

Re: The Origins of Christianity

On sources, is it not accepted that rituals are also sources? Gore Vidal in Julian describes what he thinks might have gone on in a mithraic ritual, where the conclusion of loads of stuff going on all night in a cave is bursting out at dawn to face the rising sun. All these various rituals are form...
by neilgodfrey
Mon Jul 11, 2016 11:16 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: The Origins of Christianity
Replies: 345
Views: 186340

Re: The Origins of Christianity

I should add that I am not suggesting literary criticism is "superior" in any way to form criticism and should be a default position. That I have never argued. What I have expressed is the idea that the two are incompatible because they are based on quite different assumptions about the te...
by neilgodfrey
Mon Jul 11, 2016 11:09 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: The Origins of Christianity
Replies: 345
Views: 186340

Re: The Origins of Christianity

goes to show that both are possible: the identification of source materials and the treatment of texts as integrated wholes. Ben. As mentioned in the other thread, I have never thought there is any conflict between redaction and literary criticism. A literary criticism can address any layer of narr...