But Abraham ibn Daud (d. 1180 CE) is using the Talmud to deny the existence of Jesus lived under Pilate.RandyHelzerman wrote: ↑Sat Apr 20, 2024 10:38 am
Either way, the Talmud is asserting the existent of someone--it is not denying the existence of anybody.
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- Sat Apr 20, 2024 10:54 am
- Forum: Christian Texts and History
- Topic: Litwa on Marcion as ancient Mythicist
- Replies: 46
- Views: 909
Re: Litwa on Marcion as ancient Mythicist
- Sat Apr 20, 2024 10:52 am
- Forum: Christian Texts and History
- Topic: Litwa on Marcion as ancient Mythicist
- Replies: 46
- Views: 909
Re: Litwa on Marcion as ancient Mythicist
Forget Carrrier for a minute in a discussion on the historicity of Jesus, you are inviting me to ignore the author of the book 'On the historicity of Jesus' . :lol: I go to memory, but in a note of this book, Carrier says that Jesus could be considered as lived on the earth in the remote past, and ...
- Sat Apr 20, 2024 10:33 am
- Forum: Christian Texts and History
- Topic: Litwa on Marcion as ancient Mythicist
- Replies: 46
- Views: 909
Re: Litwa on Marcion as ancient Mythicist
Because in either case 1 or case 2 above, nowhere is there a claim that ANY Jesus doesn't exist! Are they the same Jesus? no. Well, then the Talmud is talking about a completely different person. It not saying anything at all about the Jesus of the epistles and letters. You continue to ignore the i...
- Sat Apr 20, 2024 10:16 am
- Forum: Christian Texts and History
- Topic: Litwa on Marcion as ancient Mythicist
- Replies: 46
- Views: 909
Re: Litwa on Marcion as ancient Mythicist
Because in either case 1 or case 2 above, nowhere is there a claim that ANY Jesus doesn't exist! it seems to me that you don't like to deal with the logical implication of a Janneus's Jesus. Assume it. The implication is that the texts (i.e. epistles) preceding the first gospel were referred to tha...
- Sat Apr 20, 2024 6:23 am
- Forum: Christian Texts and History
- Topic: Litwa on Marcion as ancient Mythicist
- Replies: 46
- Views: 909
Re: Litwa on Marcion as ancient Mythicist
Ryan Covington (Hume's Apprentice) concedes the absence of evidence of mythicist accusations (even if I disagree ) and yet he writes: A surprising post from M. David Litwa. I’ve asked a question (will post if he answers) about whether Marcion’s ‘cosmic Christ’ was crucified in the upper air or if he...
- Fri Apr 19, 2024 9:07 pm
- Forum: Christian Texts and History
- Topic: The Temptation Story in Mark is anti-marcionite
- Replies: 49
- Views: 720
Re: The Temptation Story in Mark is anti-marcionite
Klinghardt gives me reason on this point: The Markan report of Jesus’ baptism not only places the beginning of the Gospel into a framework of salvation history, it also provides the opportunity to have God himself proclaim the true identity of Jesus as ‘my beloved son’ (Mark 1,11). Compared to Jesu...
- Fri Apr 19, 2024 8:49 pm
- Forum: Christian Texts and History
- Topic: Litwa on Marcion as ancient Mythicist
- Replies: 46
- Views: 909
Re: Litwa on Marcion as ancient Mythicist
But the Talmud placed Jesus under Janneus. The Jesus lived under Pilate was a myth, according to that Talmudic tradition. Let me rephrase.....What is "Mythicism?" I'm trying to think of what Richard Carrier, Marcion, Robert Price, and the Talmud have in common, and its a riddle I just can...
- Fri Apr 19, 2024 9:55 am
- Forum: Christian Texts and History
- Topic: The Temptation Story in Mark is anti-marcionite
- Replies: 49
- Views: 720
Re: The Temptation Story in Mark is anti-marcionite
But....just when we got rid of one phantom gospel, we have to postulate another--an earlier version of Mark, which didn't have the baptism by John, and a lot of other things. True. Among the 'other things', in primis the Parable of the Vineyard, where the secrecy about the identity of the father of...
- Fri Apr 19, 2024 8:13 am
- Forum: Christian Texts and History
- Topic: Litwa on Marcion as ancient Mythicist
- Replies: 46
- Views: 909
Re: Litwa on Marcion as ancient Mythicist
that they could easily fit Jesus into and create a polemical narrative with. Abraham ibn Daud (d. 1180 CE ) would disagree with you, insofar he wrote: The historical works of the Jews state that this Joshua b. Perahyah was the teacher of Jesus the Nazarene. If this is so, he lived in the time of ki...
- Fri Apr 19, 2024 7:39 am
- Forum: Christian Texts and History
- Topic: Litwa on Marcion as ancient Mythicist
- Replies: 46
- Views: 909
Re: Litwa on Marcion as ancient Mythicist
you know the saying: "once thrown the stone, you can't hide your hand".StephenGoranson wrote: ↑Fri Apr 19, 2024 7:19 am Dating Jesus to the time of Jannaeus is a mistake,
as I have discussed elsewhere.