In Which of These Do You Believe?

What do they believe? What do you think? Talk about religion as it exists today.
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billd89
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In Which of These Do You Believe?

Post by billd89 »

Some of these Spirit Beings are new to me! (This image looks like it was made in the 1960s or 1970s; no source info, sorry.)
From this blog post: "What Do Biblically Accurate Angels Look Like?"

Image
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DCHindley
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Re: In Which of These Do You Believe?

Post by DCHindley »

billd89 wrote: Mon Aug 07, 2023 5:33 pm Some of these Spirit Beings are new to me! (This image looks like it was made in the 1960s or 1970s; no source info, sorry.)
From this blog post: "What Do Biblically Accurate Angels Look Like?"

Image
If the paper is really as worn as it seems it looks 19th century, but the color must have been added.

It looks a lot like the kind of art you see at this site:

https://shop.mvndeep.com/category/the-h ... -of-angels
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billd89
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Metatron!

Post by billd89 »

Ahhhhh, no. We will have to disagree. That site's imagery looks very different -- demonic and Metal (I think). Here is their Metatron:

Image

Here is an Islamic portrayal of the angel Metatron (Arabic: ميططرون) depicted in the Daqa’iq al-Haqa’iq (دقائق الحقایق "Degrees of Truths") by Nasir ad-Din Rammal in the 14th century CE, Bibliotheque Nationale de France, Paris:

Image

Wm. Blake, "Ezekiel's Vision" c.1805:

Image

19th C.?
Image

21st C. AI generated imagery:

Image

And don't forget Metatron's Cube:

Image


Let's learn more about "the most mysterious and powerful angel" Metatron, from the 3rd Book of Enoch/Sefer Hekhalot:

StephenGoranson
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Re: In Which of These Do You Believe?

Post by StephenGoranson »

The image in the OP appears to me (i.e., in my guess) to be a 19th-century (as DCH noted) English Catholic broadside (single broadsheet, not a book page) print, one side only, with the red ink original not added, of the pseudo-Dionysius classification system.
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billd89
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Re: In PhotoShop We Believe?

Post by billd89 »

DCHindley wrote: Tue Aug 08, 2023 2:25 pmIf the paper is really as worn as it seems it looks 19th century, but the color must have been added.
StephenGoranson wrote: Wed Aug 09, 2023 5:00 am The image in the OP appears to me (i.e., in my guess) to be a 19th-century (as DCH noted) English Catholic broadside (single broadsheet, not a book page) print, one side only, with the red ink original not added
It's a PShop, a Shoop: the "paper" is a .jpg upon which other images (probably: .jpgs) have been layered.
(I easily and immediately recognize this, because I make PShops, also.)

See this image has the exact same 'paper', Stephen? Note the identical creases, stains, coloring, edges, etc. Identical. The black & red line graphics are individually layered, then merged later ... this composite image cannot be more than 25 years old.

As Wiki shows, this image is credited to Travis McHenry may be from The Angenomicon [2019], and therefore c.2015.

Image
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billd89
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Re: Shoop It!

Post by billd89 »

Here is a Shoop that I made about five years ago, on 'old paper' and with various jpg images which I found online and assembled myself.

Several of the people in this photograph are important: that's Emma Edelstein partly obscured in the very back, by the right-side window. More obviously, Ludwig is sitting directly in front of the projector. In Late April 1938.
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DCHindley
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Re: In Which of These Do You Believe?

Post by DCHindley »

OK, I see what was going on. In the Wiki page bld89 gave above, I clicked on the link for Travis McHenrey;

https://www.occult.live/index.php/Travis_McHenry

In the list of this individual's published works, I see one called Angel Tarot (deck) and poof, there it was.

The Angels of the Kabbala series of Tarot Cards have the exact same graphic images. McHenrey claims to have designed the graphics himself. A table can be found in one of the links that shows the names of angels of the image labeled "Angels of the Kabbalah" come from a certain modern occult reconstruction.

As SG had suggested these names (the labels are different in each image, even though the graphics are identical) reflect something in one of the works attributed to Pseudo Dionysius the Areopagite.

In the Celestial Hierarchy chapters 7-9, the heavenly hierarchy of divine beings is listed.

AoK image
Ps-Dionysius
Hierotheos
Kabballah
Seraphim Seraphim Seraphim Seraphim
Cherubim Cherubim Thrones Cherubim
Thrones Thrones Cherubs Thrones
Dominions Powers Powers Dominions
Powers Lordships Lordships Powers
Virtues Authorities Authorities Virtues
Principalities Principalities Principalities Principalities
Archangels Archangels Archangels Archangels
Angels Angels Angels Angels

I think this shows the order of names (and some names) are medieval (Kabbalistic), not late Roman (Ps-Dionysius). The images may be scans of blank pages and 18th-19th century etched images of angels from devotional books (maybe Catholic) that have been photoshopped to add colored overlays and other embellishments (as suggested by bld89) in a Tarot card deck published by a modern occultist (McHenrey).

I thought it was interesting that the three of us (bld89, SG & DCH) interpreted these images quite differently based on our own unique knowledge sets.

DCH

*The list/order from Ps-Dionysius is from an English Translation of Celestial Hierarchy chapters 7-9 found at Roger Pearce's Tertullian website.
*The list/order from Hierotheos is as translated by F S Marsh, 1927. I have scanned a research copy (out of print), but don't want to post it as it is in copyright in USA. For private use ... PM me.
*The "Kabballah" list/order, supposedly developed by occultist Robert Fludd in his Meteorologica Cosmica (1623) is from the Occult Encyclopedia page:
https://www.occult.live/index.php/Hierarchy_of_angels
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billd89
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What Different People See

Post by billd89 »

DCHindley wrote: Thu Aug 10, 2023 7:33 pm OK, I see what was going on. In the Wiki page bld89 gave above, I clicked on the link for Travis McHenrey;

https://www.occult.live/index.php/Travis_McHenry

In the list of this individual's published works, I see one called Angel Tarot (deck) and poof, there it was.

The Angels of the Kabbala series of Tarot Cards have the exact same graphic images. McHenrey claims to have designed the graphics himself.
[...]


I thought it was interesting that the three of us (bld89, SG & DCH) interpreted these images quite differently based on our own unique knowledge sets.
A number of McHenry's "creations" come from original 18th & 19th C. images. To me, however, this one below suggested something (partly) traced from a Marvel or DC superhero comic book ("1970s" or 1980s?). And the overall style of this Kaballah Angel collection -- in my mind, at first glance, and without close scrutiny -- evoked images from hippie occultism of the 1970s.
Image

Of course, I was also wrong on dating. However, that one clue may not be entirely incorrect -- we don't know which books he used, copied, etc. in his research -- nor inadvertent, although it should now be obvious that McHenry has collected here a hodge-podge of original images from many sources (most probably, some published c.1970-2010).

As I corrected: he traced and adapted whatever graphics he chose to create his own angelolgy of Shooped images (purportedly, "designed by himself") c.2015.

Wiki:
He began {in 1993} a lifelong study of the Tarot which culminated in 2013 when he began to explore old books to learn the origins of the cards.

It's still ridiculous (to me) that a devout Christian blogger would mindlessly reproduce this occult material as legitimate Judaica, but she probably also assumed it is an old Angel hierarchy "from the Bible" -- without thinking critically, or investigating (GoogleImage) further.

I'm not going to declare it's all utter rubbish, but -- call me cynical -- I wouldn't trust the 'scholarship' of this very recent pagan artist-writer, much.


The point that 7-in-10 Americans believe in 'Angels' remains. And these books obviously sell.
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