Did god really condemn mankind? Is god a just god?

What do they believe? What do you think? Talk about religion as it exists today.
bbyrd009
Posts: 275
Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2018 10:52 am
Location: Ute City, COLO

Re: Did god really condemn mankind? Is god a just god?

Post by bbyrd009 »

ok, ty
Lucifer Satanel
Posts: 14
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2021 4:13 pm

Re: Did god really condemn mankind? Is god a just god?

Post by Lucifer Satanel »

To the Original poster, GD God did not condemn man to death and hell. Eve and Adam were exactly like Lucifer -they both betrayed him and rejected the earthly heaven of Eden. By their own treason they became subject to a "purgatory" of natural life rather than the supernatural life they had been enjoying enjoying eternal life in the garden. They had to be rejected because they had become evil in an attempt to be as great as God. Having become evil they did not confess and attempt to reform instead they tried to hide their foul deed. When exposed they also did not ask for forgiveness and a chance to reform instead Eve tried to blame the serpent and Adam blamed Eve -they thus were both unrepentant.

God did not condemn them or us to hell either. Humans remained evil, which they are objectively, whether or not there was a fall. One could always repent and reform and become perfect [ biblical examples Enoch and Elijah ]. Heaven would become hell if the ungodly evil ones existed in it. They exclude themselves and that exclusion is hell. Your idea that we need to be allowed into heaven whatever are condition is because it's not proportional to deed is false. Evil is first a state of being all evil acts are only expressions of that unrepentant state, even was completely alone never acting out ones evil to others one would remain evil and would deserve the eternal meeting of oneself in hell.

Both God and goodness have always been knowable -they only start as mysteries if you don't seek them -such conditionals are acceptable for a new born but not for an adult. One can't even use the society excuse as of course the society of the ungodly and evil is both ungodly and evil like themselves and that society is entirely man creation. The Serpent deceived me does not work for modern people anymore that it worked for Eve.
bbyrd009
Posts: 275
Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2018 10:52 am
Location: Ute City, COLO

Re: Did god really condemn mankind? Is god a just god?

Post by bbyrd009 »

Lucifer Satanel wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 5:23 pm To the Original poster, GD God did not condemn man to death and hell. Eve and Adam were exactly like Lucifer -they both betrayed him and rejected the earthly heaven of Eden. By their own treason they became subject to a "purgatory" of natural life rather than the supernatural life they had been enjoying enjoying eternal life in the garden. They had to be rejected because they had become evil in an attempt to be as great as God. Having become evil they did not confess and attempt to reform instead they tried to hide their foul deed. When exposed they also did not ask for forgiveness and a chance to reform instead Eve tried to blame the serpent and Adam blamed Eve -they thus were both unrepentant.

God did not condemn them or us to hell either. Humans remained evil, which they are objectively, whether or not there was a fall. One could always repent and reform and become perfect [ biblical examples Enoch and Elijah ]. Heaven would become hell if the ungodly evil ones existed in it. They exclude themselves and that exclusion is hell. Your idea that we need to be allowed into heaven whatever are condition is because it's not proportional to deed is false. Evil is first a state of being all evil acts are only expressions of that unrepentant state, even was completely alone never acting out ones evil to others one would remain evil and would deserve the eternal meeting of oneself in hell.

Both God and goodness have always been knowable -they only start as mysteries if you don't seek them -such conditionals are acceptable for a new born but not for an adult. One can't even use the society excuse as of course the society of the ungodly and evil is both ungodly and evil like themselves and that society is entirely man creation. The Serpent deceived me does not work for modern people anymore that it worked for Eve.
gb isnt around any more, i dont think
Lucifer Satanel
Posts: 14
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2021 4:13 pm

Re: Did god really condemn mankind? Is god a just god?

Post by Lucifer Satanel »

I know, but was answering his position rather than him.
bbyrd009
Posts: 275
Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2018 10:52 am
Location: Ute City, COLO

Re: Did god really condemn mankind? Is god a just god?

Post by bbyrd009 »

Lucifer Satanel wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 2:16 am I know, but was answering his position rather than him.
Ah, ok. I wonder if it is advisable to be quite so gnostic? You don’t care to hedge your bets up there, even a little?
Lucifer Satanel
Posts: 14
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2021 4:13 pm

Re: Did god really condemn mankind? Is god a just god?

Post by Lucifer Satanel »

bbyrd009 wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 5:28 pm
Lucifer Satanel wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 2:16 am I know, but was answering his position rather than him.
Ah, ok. I wonder if it is advisable to be quite so gnostic? You don’t care to hedge your bets up there, even a little?
I'm not being Gnostic at all. Good and evil are absolutes that are the same in all times and places. They are not things but states of being. We all experienced numerous emotional states and these experiences allow us to understand ourselves and others. More importantly they both allow us to discover ultimate values and to transform ourselves into what ever we want to be. When we ultimately don't choose good instead of evil it is not God or the Devil whom is to blame but ourselves. Being who are evil create both the spirit of evil and evil actions -this makes it impossible for them to go to heaven as they would turn heaven into hell just by being there.

That mankind has always chosen evil is a sad reality. It's only the rare individual human being that has chosen to be good and to be good one have to have all the parts of good not just some.

As for hedging your bets that's a dumb idea one need to be willing to put all ones chips in a pot -just make sure that one practices bankroll management and does not have ones whole bankroll at the table. Good does not have a material reward only a spiritual in the sense of psychological reward. The vast hoards of the evil have made sure of this. To illustrate this with an obvious conflict we know: that their is a God who created everything, or their are gods who evolved from the chaos and than created everything or that neither God nor gods exist and everything evolved by natural processes; we also know that there is an eternal spirit that constantly reincarnates or that there's a spirit that lives on after death or that there is nothing after death is is the complete end of existence for all. Any of these nine realities is possible. They are innate principles in all of our minds, but only one of them is true. One can't know without careful examination and analysis which is the truth. When one merely assumes on knows and evidence mines for proof of ones prejudice one has not examined at all and ones analysis will be even a greater joke than ones examination. Unfortunately one needs intellect just just desire to discover what is true.

I hope you can see that I'm not being Gnostic, though I'm more gnostic than Gnostic Bishop ;)
bbyrd009
Posts: 275
Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2018 10:52 am
Location: Ute City, COLO

Re: Did god really condemn mankind? Is god a just god?

Post by bbyrd009 »

Lucifer Satanel wrote: Thu Aug 05, 2021 6:06 pm
bbyrd009 wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 5:28 pm
Lucifer Satanel wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 2:16 am I know, but was answering his position rather than him.
Ah, ok. I wonder if it is advisable to be quite so gnostic? You don’t care to hedge your bets up there, even a little?
I'm not being Gnostic at all. Good and evil are absolutes that are the same in all times and places.
hmm, are you sure? I think i could provide a pretty long list of things once thought evil, that now are not?
They are not things but states of being. We all experienced numerous emotional states and these experiences allow us to understand ourselves and others. More importantly they both allow us to discover ultimate values and to transform ourselves into what ever we want to be. When we ultimately don't choose good instead of evil it is not God or the Devil whom is to blame but ourselves. Being who are evil create both the spirit of evil and evil actions -this makes it impossible for them to go to heaven as they would turn heaven into hell just by being there.
No one has ever gone up to heaven but He Who came down from it, the son of man so i dunno, wadr…
That mankind has always chosen evil is a sad reality. It's only the rare individual human being that has chosen to be good and to be good one have to have all the parts of good not just some.

As for hedging your bets that's a dumb idea one need to be willing to put all ones chips in a pot -just make sure that one practices bankroll management and does not have ones whole bankroll at the table. Good does not have a material reward only a spiritual in the sense of psychological reward. The vast hoards of the evil have made sure of this. To illustrate this with an obvious conflict we know: that their is a God who created everything, or their are gods who evolved from the chaos and than created everything or that neither God nor gods exist and everything evolved by natural processes; we also know that there is an eternal spirit that constantly reincarnates or that there's a spirit that lives on after death or that there is nothing after death is is the complete end of existence for all. Any of these nine realities is possible. They are innate principles in all of our minds, but only one of them is true. One can't know without careful examination and analysis which is the truth. When one merely assumes on knows and evidence mines for proof of ones prejudice one has not examined at all and ones analysis will be even a greater joke than ones examination. Unfortunately one needs intellect just just desire to discover what is true.

I hope you can see that I'm not being Gnostic, though I'm more gnostic than Gnostic Bishop ;)
ah ok ty
Lucifer Satanel
Posts: 14
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2021 4:13 pm

Re: Did god really condemn mankind? Is god a just god?

Post by Lucifer Satanel »

bbyrd009 wrote:hmm, are you sure? I think i could provide a pretty long list of things once thought evil, that now are not?[//quote]

What people feel or think is good or evil is meaningless. They are objectively determinable and are states of being and both states are always present in every human being. From the standpoint of Good anything that's not good is evil. To give a specific example: Martial Good and Evil can easily be discerned either from studying history or just contrasting how people feel it should be waged or even just observing ones only contrasting emotions. Good is always a form of love, evil always a form of hate. Good will always be benevolent desiring freedom and the protection of others, while evil always desires power and delights in terror. Martial good always involves the motive that political (AKA territorial) unions are based on the free consent of those joining them and the right to withdraw from them while evil is always maliciously scheming for power over others. Combined with this it always is terrorist seeking to attack civilians and their means of livelihood. Good always limits the use of force to defense and to a limited defense aimed exclusively at military targets. Now to outrage most of the Americans America is the chief land of Martial evil and has been since the end of WWII.
PS I'm an American and a true American not an immigrant. My direct paternal ancestors were Sons of Liberty, one being hanged by the British for inciting rebellion against them and his grandson an American captain in our revolutionary war.
bbyrd009
Posts: 275
Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2018 10:52 am
Location: Ute City, COLO

Re: Did god really condemn mankind? Is god a just god?

Post by bbyrd009 »

Lucifer Satanel wrote: Wed Aug 11, 2021 7:58 pm
bbyrd009 wrote:hmm, are you sure? I think i could provide a pretty long list of things once thought evil, that now are not?[//quote]

What people feel or think is good or evil is meaningless. They are objectively determinable and are states of being and both states are always present in every human being. From the standpoint of Good anything that's not good is evil. To give a specific example: Martial Good and Evil can easily be discerned either from studying history or just contrasting how people feel it should be waged or even just observing ones only contrasting emotions. Good is always a form of love, evil always a form of hate. Good will always be benevolent desiring freedom and the protection of others, while evil always desires power and delights in terror. Martial good always involves the motive that political (AKA territorial) unions are based on the free consent of those joining them and the right to withdraw from them while evil is always maliciously scheming for power over others. Combined with this it always is terrorist seeking to attack civilians and their means of livelihood. Good always limits the use of force to defense and to a limited defense aimed exclusively at military targets. Now to outrage most of the Americans America is the chief land of Martial evil and has been since the end of WWII.
PS I'm an American and a true American not an immigrant. My direct paternal ancestors were Sons of Liberty, one being hanged by the British for inciting rebellion against them and his grandson an American captain in our revolutionary war.
ah ok ty
Post Reply