Will the real atheist please stand up?

What do they believe? What do you think? Talk about religion as it exists today.

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Blood
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Re: Polemic re Carrier Craig etc

Post by Blood »

DCHindley wrote: There are not a lot of Avatars with real pictures around.
That's why I put my picture up. Since some us spend more time talking to strangers on this forum than we do our own family, we might as well make the exchange a little more personal.
“The only sensible response to fragmented, slowly but randomly accruing evidence is radical open-mindedness. A single, simple explanation for a historical event is generally a failure of imagination, not a triumph of induction.” William H.C. Propp
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Re: Polemic re Carrier Craig etc

Post by DCHindley »

Clive wrote:Are they related?

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/habermas/
Jürgen Habermas currently ranks as one of the most influential philosophers in the world.
I don't think Gary Habermas and Jürgen Habermas are related at all.

DCH (sick today with itchy hives, boss)
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Re: Polemic re Carrier Craig etc

Post by theomise »

DCHindley wrote:
Clive wrote:Are they related?

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/habermas/
Jürgen Habermas currently ranks as one of the most influential philosophers in the world.
I don't think Gary Habermas and Jürgen Habermas are related at all.

DCH (sick today with itchy hives, boss)
Indeed.

The 1929-born German scholar Jürgen Habermas is unquestionably a legit philosopher (although, personally, I'm not a fan...).

"Gary Habermas", on the other hand, is some randomly incorrigible Christian apologist with zero genetic or philosophical relation to his German namesake (and better).
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John T
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Re: Polemic re Carrier Craig etc

Post by John T »

Fast forward 8 years.

Are we now allowed to talk about the difference between semi-atheists like Richard Dawkins and pseudo-athiests like Carrier? :popcorn:
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Re: Polemic re Carrier Craig etc

Post by ABuddhist »

John T wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 8:49 am Fast forward 8 years.

Are we now allowed to talk about the difference between semi-atheists like Richard Dawkins and pseudo-athiests like Carrier? :popcorn:
Why do you claim that neither of them are full atheists?
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Re: Polemic re Carrier Craig etc

Post by John T »

John T wrote: Thu Sep 04, 2014 5:30 am I did not "flag" this thread.
I did not ask for it to be pulled down.
I did not ask for it to be put back up under my name.

I can only assume the 'why' and it was not due to the profanity directed at me nor the ad hominem attacks, not even the lies.

I suspect it was because I touched a raw nerve.
Did I broach that forbidden subject while exposing the flaws/motives of Richard Carrier's latest vain attempt to disprove the historical Jesus?
Could it be this forum is a one way street, that atheists like Carrier can bash Christians but apologetics from Christians like Craig are not allowed?

Perhaps.

However, I suspect it was something much more than that.
I suspect it was because I uttered the name of 'He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named'.
The Lord Voldermort of the atheist realm, Gary Habermas.

Gary Habermas is a renowned and prolific author, lecturer, and debater on the topic of the Resurrection of Jesus.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Habermas

Habermas is probably best know for his 12 historical facts about Jesus that was so compelling that he is credited with converting the "foremost contemporary philosophical, atheist scholar of the 20th century, Antony Flew", into a theist.

http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/garyhabermas.htm

For that, Flew was despised as a traitor to the faith and Gary Habermas became; He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named.

Regards,

John (Harry Potter) T
After 8 years and careful review, my opinion of Carrier has not changed because the evidence to the contrary has not changed. In fact, the ongoing evidence has only made my argument stronger. That is; Carrier was not a real atheist and by extension there were no real atheists on this forum.

An honest discussion to question the purpose/motives of some of this forum titled: Biblical Criticism & History Forum, was not allowed when I first join the forum. Hopefully, those reasons (monetary/political?) are no longer a factor.

So, now that Carrier has long ago been exposed as the charlatan (crack-pot) he is, will Peter Kirby put this thread back so we can resume an honest discussion?

"To be aware of one's own ignorance is true wisdom"..Socrates
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Will the real atheist please stand up?

Post by Peter Kirby »

John T wrote: Tue Mar 14, 2023 3:52 pm After 8 years and careful review, my opinion of Carrier has not changed because the evidence to the contrary has not changed. In fact, the ongoing evidence has only made my argument stronger. That is; Carrier was not a real atheist and by extension there were no real atheists on this forum.

An honest discussion to question the purpose/motives of some of this forum titled: Biblical Criticism & History Forum, was not allowed when I first join the forum. Hopefully, those reasons (monetary/political?) are no longer a factor.

So, now that Carrier has long ago been exposed as the charlatan (crack-pot) he is, will Peter Kirby put this thread back so we can resume an honest discussion?

"To be aware of one's own ignorance is true wisdom"..Socrates
Alright, you have the floor.
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Re: Polemic re Carrier Craig etc

Post by ABuddhist »

John T wrote: Tue Mar 14, 2023 3:52 pm After 8 years and careful review, my opinion of Carrier has not changed because the evidence to the contrary has not changed. In fact, the ongoing evidence has only made my argument stronger. That is; Carrier was not a real atheist and by extension there were no real atheists on this forum.
And what is your basis for concluding these things? You have not said.
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Re: Will the real atheist please stand up?

Post by John T »

Peter Kirby wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 11:13 pm
John T wrote: Tue Mar 14, 2023 3:52 pm After 8 years and careful review, my opinion of Carrier has not changed because the evidence to the contrary has not changed. In fact, the ongoing evidence has only made my argument stronger. That is; Carrier was not a real atheist and by extension there were no real atheists on this forum.

An honest discussion to question the purpose/motives of some of this forum titled: Biblical Criticism & History Forum, was not allowed when I first join the forum. Hopefully, those reasons (monetary/political?) are no longer a factor.

So, now that Carrier has long ago been exposed as the charlatan (crack-pot) he is, will Peter Kirby put this thread back so we can resume an honest discussion?

"To be aware of one's own ignorance is true wisdom"..Socrates
Alright, you have the floor.
Carrier on his recent book: Jesus from Outer Space.

"New material includes a clear explanation, right out of the gate, of why this book’s “shocking” title is actually not anachronistic or contentious, but in fact entirely, contextually accurate—even if Jesus existed. That’s right."...Carrier

https://www.richardcarrier.info/archives/17174

Just like a snake oil salesman who doesn't actually believe that his magic formula will work other than it will get you drunk and him rich. So, is there any evidence Carrier actually believes in his latest crack-pot theory? i.e. Jesus from Outer Space.

Or is he simply pandering to useful idiots to make a buck?

Has Carrier actually labeled himself an atheist? If so, how does Carrier define a real, honest to God, atheist?

Pun intended. :tomato:
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Re: Will the real atheist please stand up?

Post by ABuddhist »

John T wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 5:53 pm
Peter Kirby wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 11:13 pm
John T wrote: Tue Mar 14, 2023 3:52 pm After 8 years and careful review, my opinion of Carrier has not changed because the evidence to the contrary has not changed. In fact, the ongoing evidence has only made my argument stronger. That is; Carrier was not a real atheist and by extension there were no real atheists on this forum.

An honest discussion to question the purpose/motives of some of this forum titled: Biblical Criticism & History Forum, was not allowed when I first join the forum. Hopefully, those reasons (monetary/political?) are no longer a factor.

So, now that Carrier has long ago been exposed as the charlatan (crack-pot) he is, will Peter Kirby put this thread back so we can resume an honest discussion?

"To be aware of one's own ignorance is true wisdom"..Socrates
Alright, you have the floor.
Carrier on his recent book: Jesus from Outer Space.

"New material includes a clear explanation, right out of the gate, of why this book’s “shocking” title is actually not anachronistic or contentious, but in fact entirely, contextually accurate—even if Jesus existed. That’s right."...Carrier

https://www.richardcarrier.info/archives/17174

Just like a snake oil salesman who doesn't actually believe that his magic formula will work other than it will get you drunk and him rich. So, is there any evidence Carrier actually believes in his latest crack-pot theory? i.e. Jesus from Outer Space.

Or is he simply pandering to useful idiots to make a buck?

Has Carrier actually labeled himself an atheist? If so, how does Carrier define a real, honest to God, atheist?

Pun intended. :tomato:
Well, raising a hypothetical position which one disagrees with is not the same as agreeing with that position.

Carrier claims to believe his theory, so you should provide evidence that he does not believe it.

A similar argument can be raised about people defending Christianity: do they believe it, or are they just making claims in order to make money from Christians?

https://freethoughtblogs.com/crommunist ... d-carrier/ is where Carrier identifies as an atheist.

https://www.richardcarrier.info/archives/16076 is where Carrier defines atheism.
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