"Aristotle Never Lived"

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billd89
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"Aristotle Never Lived"

Post by billd89 »

Wasn't there a spurious debate here along these same lines, not too long ago? I cannot find the thread.

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/science ... -existence
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JPCusickSr
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Re: "Aristotle Never Lived"

Post by JPCusickSr »

billd89 wrote: Thu Nov 09, 2023 11:50 am Wasn't there a spurious debate here along these same lines, not too long ago? I cannot find the thread.

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/science ... -existence
I find nothing wrong in seeking the truth, so if it is a fake then so be it.

It was always uncomfortable in the claim that Aristotle was the teacher of Alexander because we do not have any credible record of Alexander but they do have extensive texts from Aristotle.

And the writings of Aristotle are just so boring.

If China is correct that there is no record before the 13th century then it is probably true that the Aristotle record is faked.
StephenGoranson
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Re: "Aristotle Never Lived"

Post by StephenGoranson »

What source from China about the 13th century, JPCusickSr, are you referring to?
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Leucius Charinus
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Re: "Aristotle Never Lived"

Post by Leucius Charinus »

JPCusickSr wrote: Sat Nov 11, 2023 4:55 am
It was always uncomfortable in the claim that Aristotle was the teacher of Alexander because we do not have any credible record of Alexander but they do have extensive texts from Aristotle.
https://talesoftimesforgotten.com/2019/ ... ite-a-lot/
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JPCusickSr
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Re: "Aristotle Never Lived"

Post by JPCusickSr »

StephenGoranson wrote: Sat Nov 11, 2023 12:40 pm What source from China about the 13th century, JPCusickSr, are you referring to?
It declares the 13th century in the link in the OP.
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JPCusickSr
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Re: "Aristotle Never Lived"

Post by JPCusickSr »

Leucius Charinus wrote: Sun Nov 12, 2023 12:19 am
JPCusickSr wrote: Sat Nov 11, 2023 4:55 am
It was always uncomfortable in the claim that Aristotle was the teacher of Alexander because we do not have any credible record of Alexander but they do have extensive texts from Aristotle.
https://talesoftimesforgotten.com/2019/ ... ite-a-lot/
Alexander died in 323 BCE and the info in your link is dated at 90 BCE at the earliest so they are not reliable, see below:

Copied from your (LC) link:
* the Universal History written by the Greek historian Diodoros Sikeliotes (lived c. 90 – c. 30 BC)
* The Histories of Alexander the Great, written by the Roman historian Quintus Curtius Rufus (fl. c. first century AD)
* the Anabasis of Alexander, written by the Greek historian Arrianos of Nikomedia (lived c. 86 – after c. 146 AD)
* The Life of Alexander the Great, written by the Greek biographer and Middle Platonist philosopher Ploutarchos of Chaironeia (lived c. 46 – c. 120 AD)
* the Epitome of the Philippic History of Pompeius Trogus, written by the Roman historian Iustinus (fl. c. second century AD), based on an earlier history written by the Roman historian Gnaeus Pompeius Trogus (fl. c. first century BC)

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Plus it is a huge claim that Aristotle was the teacher of Alexander.
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Re: "Aristotle Never Lived"

Post by StephenGoranson »

billd89, on your question in the OP, perhaps you are recalling mention in the forum, searchable, of Jean Hardouin (1646-1729), who initialed the 13th-century conspiracy imagining.

Aristotle, teacher of Alexander, was not necessarily pleased by all Alexander subsequently did.
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billd89
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Re: The Post-Truth Era

Post by billd89 »

Thanks, Stephen. It was this thread, 'about' Socrates.
JPCusickSr wrote: Sat Nov 11, 2023 4:55 am ... we do not have any credible record of Alexander ...
Semantics aside, isn't all the archaeological evidence part of the 'record'? I'm surprised that someone rationally doubts/denies the existence of Alexander. The Chinese propagandist, otoh, is merely playing the same lying shitbag game as Putin/Fomenko: pushing 'parallel reality' nonsense, diabolical Communist make-believe.

https://bitterwinter.org/chinas-latest- ... not-exist/
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JPCusickSr
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Re: The Post-Truth Era

Post by JPCusickSr »

billd89 wrote: Sun Nov 12, 2023 7:32 am Semantics aside, isn't all the archaeological evidence part of the 'record'? I'm surprised that someone rationally doubts/denies the existence of Alexander.
Yes archaeological evidence is credible.

I do not say that Alexander never lived as there is sufficient history about the Greek and Persian war along with the known reality of the Greek conquest of Egypt under Alexander, but none of the history tells us any credible info about Alexander.

The records of Alexander are over 200 years after he had died, and by that time he was legendary.
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Leucius Charinus
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Re: "Aristotle Never Lived"

Post by Leucius Charinus »

JPCusickSr wrote: Sun Nov 12, 2023 6:00 am
Leucius Charinus wrote: Sun Nov 12, 2023 12:19 am
JPCusickSr wrote: Sat Nov 11, 2023 4:55 am
It was always uncomfortable in the claim that Aristotle was the teacher of Alexander because we do not have any credible record of Alexander but they do have extensive texts from Aristotle.
https://talesoftimesforgotten.com/2019/ ... ite-a-lot/
Alexander died in 323 BCE and the info in your link is dated at 90 BCE at the earliest so they are not reliable, see below:

Copied from your (LC) link:
* the Universal History written by the Greek historian Diodoros Sikeliotes (lived c. 90 – c. 30 BC)
* The Histories of Alexander the Great, written by the Roman historian Quintus Curtius Rufus (fl. c. first century AD)
* the Anabasis of Alexander, written by the Greek historian Arrianos of Nikomedia (lived c. 86 – after c. 146 AD)
* The Life of Alexander the Great, written by the Greek biographer and Middle Platonist philosopher Ploutarchos of Chaironeia (lived c. 46 – c. 120 AD)
* the Epitome of the Philippic History of Pompeius Trogus, written by the Roman historian Iustinus (fl. c. second century AD), based on an earlier history written by the Roman historian Gnaeus Pompeius Trogus (fl. c. first century BC)


But also from that same link is physical primary evidence:

Greek and Egyptian inscriptions

There are also numerous inscriptions written in Greek, Egyptian hieroglyphics, and other languages mentioning Alexander that are contemporary to Alexander’s own lifetime. For instance, here is an inscription dating to c. 330 BC from the city of Priene commemorating Alexander the Great’s dedication of the Temple of Athena Polias there. The inscription clearly reads in Ancient Greek: “King Alexander dedicated [this temple] to Athena Polias.”

///

Contemporary and posthumous coins with his name and face on them

Then you have to take into account the hundreds upon hundreds of surviving coins with Alexander the Great’s name and face on them, some of them contemporary. Here is a silver coin with Alexander’s face on the obverse and his name clearly written on the reverse, minted c. 333 – c. 327 BC in Kilikia while Alexander was still alive:

So, if Alexander the Great did not exist, why were people minting coins with his name and face on them during his lifetime?

There are countless of these coins. In fact, there are so many of these coins you can literally buy them online. Some of the lesser-value coins in poorer condition are fairly cheap.


The entire Hellenistic Era

Finally, we have what is perhaps our greatest piece of evidence in favor of the existence of Alexander the Great: the Hellenistic Era (c. 323 – c. 31 BC). This was an entire period of history lasting several hundred years when Greek culture was spread throughout the entire eastern Mediterranean and the Middle East. Greek kingdoms ruled by Greek monarchs arose, of which we have ample evidence, both historical and archaeological.

According to ancient sources and mainstream history, this whole era arose as the result of the conquests of Alexander the Great. If Alexander the Great did not exist, then you would have to make up a whole new explanation for this entire era of history, ignoring the much simpler and more parsimonious explanation that Alexander the Great actually existed.

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