Phoenician Atlantis

Discuss the world of the Greeks, Romans, Babylonians, and Egyptians.
Post Reply
Ethan
Posts: 975
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2018 1:15 pm
Location: England
Contact:

Phoenician Atlantis

Post by Ethan »


Plato - Critias 113
Poseidon himself set in order with ease, as a god would, the central island, bringing up from beneath the earth two springs of waters, the one flowing warm from its source, the other cold, and producing out of the earth all kinds of food in plenty. And he begat five pairs of twin sons and reared them up; and when he had divided all the island of Atlantis into ten portions, he assigned to the first-born of the eldest sons his mother's dwelling and the allotment surrounding it, which was the largest and best; and him he appointed to be king over the rest, and the others to be rulers, granting to each the rule over many men and a large tract of country. And to all of them he gave names, giving to him that was eldest and king the name after which the whole island was called and the sea spoken of as the Atlantic, because the first king who then reigned had the name of Atlas. And the name of his younger twin-brother who had for his portion the extremity of the island near the pillars of Heracles up to the part of the country now called Gadeira after the name of that region, was Eumelus in Greek, but in the native tongue ,—which fact may have given its title to the country. And of the pair that were born next he called the one Ampheres and the other Evaemon; and of the third pair the elder was named Mneseus and the younger Autochthon; and of the fourth pair, he called the first Elasippus and the second Mestor; and of the fifth pair, Azaes was the name given to the elder, and Diaprepes to the second. So all these, themselves and their descendants, dwelt for many generations bearing rule over many other islands throughout the sea, and holding sway besides, as was previously stated,1 over the Mediterranean peoples as far as Egypt and Tuscany.

Herodotus 4.8
Heracles, driving the cattle of Geryones, came to this land, which was then desolate, but is now inhabited by the Scythians. Geryones lived west of the Pontus, settled in the island called by the Greeks Erythea, on the shore of Ocean near Gadeira, outside the pillars of Heracles.

Pliny the Elder, The Natural History 4.36
Another long island, three miles wide, on which the original city of Gades stood. By Ephorus and Philistides it is called Erythia, by Timæus and Silenus Aphrodisias, and by the natives the Isle of Juno. Timæus says, that the larger island used to be called Cotinusa, from its olives; the Romans call it Tartessos; the Carthaginians Gadir, that word in the Punic language signifying a hedge. It was called Erythia because the Tyrians, the original an- cestors of the Carthaginians, were said to have come from the Erythræn, or Red Sea. In this island Geryon is by some thought to have dwelt, whose herds were carried off by Hercules. Other persons again think, that his island is another one, opposite to Lusitania, and that it was there formerly called by that name

ab eo latere, quo Hispaniam spectat, passibus fere C altera ia est, longa M passus, M lata, in qua prius oppidum Gadium fuit. vocatur ab Ephoro et Philistide Erythea, a Timaeo et Sileno Aphrodisias, ab indigenis Iunonis. maiorem Timaeus Cotinusam aput eos vocitatam ait; nostri Tarteson appellant, Poeni Gadir, ita Punica lingua saepem significante. Erythea dicta est, quoniam Tyri aborigines earum orti ab Erythro mari ferebantur. in hac Geryones habitasse a quibusdam existimatur, cuius armenta Hercules abduxerit. sunt qui aliam esse eam et ctra Lusitaniam arbitrentur, eodemque nomine quandam ibi appellant.

Erytheia is recorded by Hesiod as one of the Hesperides, a sunken island beyond the Pillars of Heracle
Pherecydes of Athens is considered to be the first to identify Erytheia with Gádeira (Cadiz) according to Strabo.

The language of Atlantis was Phoenicians, because in Plato, Eumelus in the native tongue was named Gadeirus, according to Pliny, from the Punic language signifying a hedge.

Γάδειρα
In Numbers 32:16, the word גדרת translates into sheepfold, "We will build sheepfolds here for our cattle" (גדרת צאן) thus explains why Gadeirus is another name for Eumelus, since the adjective, εὔμηλος means 'Rich in sheep'. In the Septuagint, גדרת translates ἔπαυλις 'fold for cattle'

εὔμηλος, εὔμαλος - rich in sheep
- הון/𐤄𐤅𐤍 means rich in Phoenician hence εὖ cf. ἠΰ, ἠύν, ἐύν, εὖ, ἠΰ.

αὔλιον/מכלה - cattle fold. (-ιον/מ־)

ἀτλαντίς is an abstract noun, the nominative terminates with -τίς, which moves to the prefix position in the Phoenician language. τ > 𐤕־/ת־. ἄτλαν; Terminal ν turns into ־𐤄/־ה or ἄτλας/𐤔־/ש־, cf. Ἅίδ(ας)/ש)אול)

Hosea 9:3
Ephraim, as I saw Tyrus, is planted in a pleasant place.
*שתל/Ἄτλ(ας)?

Ezekiel 17:22; I have planted it upon an high mountain and eminent:
שתלתי/πεφύτευκα "I have planted"
תלול/κρεμάσω (εἷλον, αἱρέω) "exalted, lofty'
תירס (Gen 10:2)
תרשיש (Gen 10:4) root. ἀνδροθέα > θρασύς, θάρσος, θάρρος, θράσος
https://vivliothikiagiasmatos.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/joseph-yahuda-hebrew-is-greek.pdf
Ethan
Posts: 975
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2018 1:15 pm
Location: England
Contact:

Re: Phoenician Atlantis

Post by Ethan »


Strabo 3.2
Not far from Castlon is the mountain in which they report that the River Keltibhrias takes its rise. They call it silver mountain on account of the silver mines which it contains. Polybius asserts that both the Guadiana67 and this river have their sources in Keltiberia, notwithstanding they are separated from each other by a distance of 900 stadia;68 [this we are to attribute to] the Keltiberians having increased in power, and having consequently conferred their name on the surrounding country.

It appears the ancients knew the Keltibhrias under the name of the Tartessus, and Gadeira with the neighbouring islands under that of Erythia; and it is thought that we should understand in this sense the words of Stesichorus concerning the pastoral poet Geryon, that he was born ‘al- most opposite to the renowned Erythia, in a rocky cave near to the abundant springs of the silver-bedded river Tartessus.’ They say that on the piece of land enclosed between the two outlets of this river there formerly stood a city named, like the river, Tartessus, and that the district was called Tartessis, which the Turduli now inhabit. Eratosthenes likewise tells us that the near to Calpe was called Tartessis, and also Erythia the Fortunate Island. This Artemidorus contradicts, and says that it is as false as his other statements, that the Sacred Promontory is distant from Gades73 five days' sail, when in fact they are [distant from each other] not more than 1700 stadia.74 Likewise that the tide ceased at this point, whereas it passes round the whole circuit of the habitable earth. That it is easier to pass from the northern parts of Iberia into Keltica,75 than to proceed thither by sea; with many other things which he asserted on the faith of that charlatan Pytheas. [12]

Our poet [Homer] being very explicit, and possessing great experience, gives one cause to believe that he was not unfamiliar with these localities. Of this any one may be convinced who will examine carefully what has been written on these points, both the incorrect [comments], and likewise those which are better and more truthful. One amongst these incorrect ideas is, that he considered [Tartessis] to be the farthest country towards the west, where, as he himself expresses is.

Castlon - Καστολῶν, Καστουλών, Castulo, Cazlona, Kastilo.
- כסלחים (Casluhim) in Genesis 10:14 > פלשתים/כפתרים (Πελασγοί)

κλεινᾶς Ἐρυθείας (renowned Erythia)
Ἐρύθειαν νῆσον (Erytheian Island, Red Island)
Κάλπῃ (Calpe)
ἀργύρεος (of silver)
ἀργυρορίζους (with silver root)
Τάρτησσος (Tartessos)
https://vivliothikiagiasmatos.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/joseph-yahuda-hebrew-is-greek.pdf
Ethan
Posts: 975
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2018 1:15 pm
Location: England
Contact:

Re: Phoenician Atlantis

Post by Ethan »

I found the Phoenician cognate of κλειτός, קריא/קרוא, the adjective is identifiable with the ־ו־/־י־, through Phoenician, word play with קרית/πόλις "city".

Cleito (קריא/קרוא).

εὐήνωρ/εὐάνωρ
- εὐ (י־, ב־, הו־, הון־, טוב־ יטב־, אב־)
- ἁνήρ (אדם, איש, אנש, ענר, זכר, אדיר, עיר, דכר, בשר)
- אבנר/אבינר?

λευκιππα
- לבן, פרש, סוס
- ἵππος/ἴκκος
- רבקה (Ρεβεκκα) ?
- ἴππα/ἴπνη, ἴκκα 'nurse of Dionysus'
https://vivliothikiagiasmatos.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/joseph-yahuda-hebrew-is-greek.pdf
Ethan
Posts: 975
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2018 1:15 pm
Location: England
Contact:

Re: Phoenician Atlantis

Post by Ethan »

ἐρυθεία is the name for the Spanish Island inhabited by the Phoenicians, , apparently means red, since resembles the adjective, ἐρυθρός, but the second ρ is missing in ἐρυθεία, so the meaning is perhaps folk etymology.

ἐρυθεία resembles ארצה "earth" (Syriac; ארעא, Doric; ἔρα, ἔρασδε)
אדמה "earth" cf. γῆ, ζᾶ, γα, δᾶ

ἐρυθεία > εὐθεῖα 'straight, direct' cf. יהודה
θείᾳ 'of or from the gods' cf. אלוה, אליה ,אלוהים (adj)

סוף 'red (ξουθός)
cf. φῦκος/fucus ''red dye, orchil, seaweed' cf. Red Sea

סוף is an adjective, hence the infix ־ו־ translates into ἐρυθρός "red" in the Bible, in the phrase 'Red Sea", the adjectival infix interchanges with ־י־
thus also written סיף, more common in Aramaic dialect.

סוף also matches the adjective, ξουθός 'golden-yellow, red blood' or a colour, between ξανθός and πυρρός, yellowish, brown-yellow, tawny, since the ξ/Ξ in ξουθός and ξανθός came from ס/𐤎. ξου(ϝ)/סוף

סוף that translates reed, semantically matches seaweed, φῦκος 'orchil, prepared from “φῦκος” and used as rouge by Greek women and the Latin is fucus 'seaweed, red dye'.
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/mor ... ek#lexicon
https://vivliothikiagiasmatos.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/joseph-yahuda-hebrew-is-greek.pdf
Ethan
Posts: 975
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2018 1:15 pm
Location: England
Contact:

Re: Phoenician Atlantis

Post by Ethan »

(Phoenician and Greek)
קריא, קרוא 'renowned, famous' (κλειτός)
עגיל, עגול 'rounded (κυκλωτός)
ברוך 'blessed (εὐλογητός)
חבוש 'yoked (ζευκτός)
חמוד 'desired (ἐπιθυμητός)
עריץ 'best (ἅριστος)
ארור 'accursed (ἀρατός)
קדיש, קדוש 'hallowed (ἁγιστός)
אהוב 'beloved (ἀγαπητός)
שאול 'asked for (αἰτητός)
אנוש 'incurable (ἀνάκεστος)
חרוץ 'easily numbered(ἀριθμητός)
אביר 'immortal, divine (ἄμβροτος)
חמוץ, חמיץ 'fermented, leavened (ζυμωτός)
ראיות 'visable (ὁρατός)
ערוץ 'dug, formed by digging (ὀρυκτός)
שעיר 'hairy (τριχωτός)
ערום 'prudent, sagacious of birds as giving omens (φρόνιμος)
משיח 'smeared on (ἐπίχριστος)
חסיד, חרוץ, 'useful, good (χρηστος)
פזורה, זרועה 'cultivated (σπαρτός)
ערוך 'stretched out (ὀρεκτός)
תקועה 'stuck in (πηκτός)
טביח, טבוח 'roasted (ὀπτητός)
נבון 'wise (πινυτός)
אגורה, גרה 'a small coin (ἀργυρίς)
דרכמן 'silver coin worth six obols (δραχμῇ)
שקל 'coin, 1/3000th part of the Babylonian silver talent (σίγλος,σίκλος)
מרבית 'profit (καρπισμός) μός/מ
תרבית 'use, profit' (κάρπωσις) σις/ת
שער 'market-place (ἀγορά)
סחר 'trader (ἀγοραῖος)
מסחר 'that which is bought or sold, wares, merchandise (ἀγόρασμα)
מוצא 'duty on exports (ἐξαγώγιον)
אוציא 'of merchandise, etc., carry out, export (ἐξάγω)
אשכר 'let out for hire (μισθόω)
שכור 'hired, freq. of soldiers, mercenaries (μισθωτός)
משכרה 'price agreed on in hiring, contract-price (μίσθωμα)
משאה 'a loan (δάνεισμα, δάνειον)
אשיך 'lend on interest (τοκίζω)
נשכיך 'money-lender, usurer (τοκιστής)
אלוה 'put out money at usury, lend (δανείζω)
חבל 'down-payment, paid money as a deposit (καταβολῇ)
ארכל 'deal in petty wares (ῥωπίζω, ῥωποπωλέω)
רכל 'dealer in petty wares, huckster (ῥωποπώλης)
רכלה 'petty wares (ῥῶπος)
יערים 'market-place, business of the agora (ἀγοραί, Forum) F/י
בעל,בלע 'Council of elders, Senate (βουλή)
צער 'assembly, esp. of the People (ἀγορά)
שערים, שרוחן 'city ruled by two assemblies, people's + council of chiefs (ἀγοραῖν)
סוד 'assembly, meeting, for festal purposes (σύνοδος)
עדה 'body of men, trade-associations or guilds (ἔθνος)
עגלים 'popular assemblies, mass of the soldiers (in a contemptuous sense) (ὄχλοι)
בעלים 'citizen, freeman, a member of a city or state (πολῖται)
לקחתי (εἴληχα/tetuli) "I have taken" (obtain by lot, possessed of a thing, fall to one's lot or share)
מלקח (λαχμός) 'that which is obtained' '
לקש ,לקט (λογίζομαι, λέγω) 'gather, pick up' (ט/ש = ζ)
אלק (λείχω) 'lick up, play with the tongue' (χ/ק)
לג (λόγος) 'measure
להג (λόγος) 'argument, discourse,
לוח (πλάξ) 'flat stone, tablet
אלוש (πλάσσω) 'knead bread
אלחם (πολεμέω) 'to be at war'
מלחמה (πόλεμος) 'war (מ/μος)
לחם (Δημήτηρ) 'bread (τηρ)
למדתי (μεμάθηκα) 'i have learned
תלמוד (μάθησις) 'Instruction - μ(ל) ν(מ) θ(ד)
אלעג (γελάω) 'laugh
לשון (γλῶσσα) 'tongue
למה (τι χρῆμα) 'what, why
לענה (λάχανον) 'garden herbs (ה/ν)
בלל, בלול(βάλλω) 'throw, bathe, throw, fall (πίπτω/נחת)
דבה (διαβολή) 'false accusation, slander
إبليس (διάβολος) 'slanderer
התנפל (εἰσβάλλω) 'to throw oneself into, make an inroad into
חבלה (ἐκβάλλω) 'of plants, put forth fruit'
שבלה (ἐκβολή) ' mouth of a river, that which comes out, ears of corn' (شلال)
הפיל (ἐμβάλλω) 'hand in, submit a petition, hand in, submit a petition, draw lots'
קבל (ἐμβολή) 'the head of a battering ram'
יובל (ἔμβολος) 'brazen beak, ram, a bolt, bar, .anything pointed so as to be easily thrust in (خابور)
חבל (καταβολή) καταβάλλω 'throwing down, begetting, paying down by installments, deposit
כרבל (περιβάλλω), περιβολή 'throw around or on oneself, of clothing
פרבר (προβολή) 'a putting forward, esp. of a weapon for defence, advanced body of cavalry'
תבולל (συμβάλλω) 'jumble up together (בלל)
נהג (ἁγέομαι) 'to go before, lead the way, .to lead an army or fleet,
מנהג (ἁγεμόνευμα) 'leading, drive chariots'
נטה (πήγνῦμι) 'pitch' (a tent)
נטש (προδίδωμι) 'deliver up, give-up, forsaken'
נשק (ἀσπάζομαι) 'to welcome greet, to embrace, kiss'
נגד (διηγέομαι) 'set out in detail, describe', מגיד/διήγημα 'tale'
נגע (ἱκνέομαι) 'come, arrive'
נוד (ἀλάομαι) 'wander, roam' , נד/ἀλάτας 'vagabond, wanderer'
נאק (μυκάομαι) 'low, bellow, groaning, of cattle'
נהר(ῥέομαι) 'of that which flows, a river'
תרפים (τρίπους) tripod, i.e. three-legged cauldron, votive gifts in temples'
עשרים (εἰκόσιν) viginti "twenty"
אל שדי (ὁ Ζεύς) Zeus
אשכל (χηρόω) 'make desolate, bereave of children, forsake'
שכם (σάκος) pen, fold, for rearing lambs, sacred enclosure, precinct, sepulchre'
מורה (μορία) 'the sacred olives in the Academy'
מקנה (ὤνημα) 'purchase'
יבשה (δίψιος) (adj) 'thirsty, and of things, dry, parched' (בש/ψ)
מקוה (ἀγών)'gathering'
משקה (πότιμος) 'drinkable, fresh, watered, irrigated' (μος/מ)
בר (πυρός) Puls. "Grain"
בר (παῖς, παῦς) Puer "Son"
גבר (κοῦρος) "young men" (ῦ/ב)
גבריאל (κοῦρος θεοῦ) 'God's gift to his parents, acolyte'
חגו, נקבה (διακοπή) "cut through
גברת (κυρίᾳ) 'mistress'
גביר (κύριος) 'master, Lord' (ύ/ב, ρι/ιρ)
שאר (πενθερός) 'father-in-law'
ששן (γηθοσύνη) 'Joy, delight'
הדה (Ωδωνις) 'Adonis'
אדון (Ἄδωνις) 'Adonis'
חרמון (Ἕρμαιών) 'called after Hermes'
רפאים (εὐτραφῶν) 'well-grown, fat'
עמלק (ἁνδρόγίγας) 'big-men'
עוג (Ὠγύγης) 'gigantic'
חברון (ὑπερόγκων) ''of excessive bulk or size, swelled to a great size'
ירדן (ἀρδάνιον, ἀρδάλιον) 'water-pot or trough'
חלבנה (χαλβανη) 'the resinous juice of all-heal' root. ἀλείφω
לבנה (γαλάκτινος 'milk-white' of the λίβανος ('frankincense tree)
זכה (διαυγής) 'translucent, transparent, shine through
מהללאל (ἄγαλμα θεῷ) "gift to God"
הללויה (ἀλαλαὶ ἰὴ παιών) "Io Paieon, Io, cry"
אילילי (ὀλολύζω) "cry with a loud voice, of women, either with jubilant voice or in lamentation" (יל/-ίζω)
ירקרק (ὠχρόξανθος) 'a pale yellow color'
חור (ὦχρος) 'pale, wan, of complexion'
צרעה (ἀνθρήνη) "wasp
אשכול (σταφύλ) 'grapes'
אשישי/ἀσταφίς) 'dried grapes'
בצל (γηθυλλίς) ασκολόνιον 'spring-onion, Scallion'
קשוא (κολοκύνθη), 'pumpkin, Squash, curcurbita
מקשה (σικυώνη) 'cucumber'
ולד (βλαστός) 'offspring'
מולדת (βλάστημα) 'offspring, offshoot'
מכרת (χωρίον) 'place, spot, district' (-ίον > -מ)
ירא (τρέω)- Fear Lt. terreō
מורא (τρόμος) 'Tremor
עמק (κόλπος) 'Valley
פילגש (ἀμφί λέχος) 'Concubine
ערבות (όροφος) 'roof
גג (στέγα, τέγος) 'roof
חמה (θυμός) "wrath"
קשת (τοξότης) 'Bowman, Archer'
חצים (οἰστόν) 'Arrow στ/צ
חלב (γλάγος) 'Milk
ליש (λίς) 'Lion
צירים (στεινά) 'distress, narrow place
נכריה (ἐγχωροῖ) 'strangers
צבר (θησαυρός) 'store, treasure'
מצבר (θησαύρισμα) 'that which is stored'
אצבר (θησαυρίζω) 'store, treasure up, hoard, store up for oneself'
אכתב (γράφω) 'I write
מכתב (γράμμα) 'Written
אתן (δωσῶ) 'I give
מתן (δόμα) 'Gift
מראה (ὅραμα) 'spectacle
תארה (ὅρασις) 'seeing
ארא (ὁράω) 'I see
בעל (πολύς) 'much
בעל (βούλῃ) 'counsel
בעל (πόλις) 'city
בעל (ἀβέλιος) 'sun
בעל (πάστας) 'owner
בעל (πόσις) 'husband
בעל (ζυγός) 'yoke
בעל (φόρας) 'bearing
בעל (Ἀπόλλων) 'Apollo
מעשר (δεκάτευμα) "tithes"
מכתם (γράφημα) "notes in music, written music"
מכתש (κοπτήριον) "place where grain was beaten out"
מלבוש (κάλυμμα) "clothing, head covering, hood, veil, dark veil worn in mourning"
מלבן (πλινθίον) "small brick"
מכרות (χωρίον) "a particular place, passage in a book"
מולדה (βλάστημα) "offspring, an offshoot,"
מכלה (αὔλιον) "belonging to folds, stables, farmhouse"
מחרשה (ἄρατρον) "plough"
מחשך (σκοτισμός) "darkening"
מטה (φύτευμα) "that which is planted"
מטה (στρῶμα) "anything spread or laid out for lying or sitting upon, mattress, bed"
מערה (ὄρυγμα) "excavation, trench, ditch, moat, pit
מכפלה (σπήλαιον) "grotto, cavern, cave, den of robbers,
מפלה (πτῶμα) "fall, misfortune, calamity"
מפלצה (πλάσμα) "anything formed, image, figure"
מפעל (ποίημα) "anything made"
מפקד (τάγμα) "fixed assessment or payment, arrangement"
מפרקה (φράγμα) "fence, breast-work, screen"
מקשה (σικυών) "cucumber bed" (Μηκώνη)
מקשה (σικυώνη) "cupping instrument"
מריבה (ἔρισμα) "cause of quarrel"
מרפא (θεράπευμα) "care of the body"
משלה (ἐπιχείρημα) "undertaking, attempt, a demonstrative syllogism"
משאלה (αἴτημα) "request, demand"
מארת (κατάραμα) "curse"
מחול (χόρευμα) "a choral dance"
מחזה (ὄψανον) "a vision"
מחיה (ζῷον) "living being, in art, figure, image"
מחיר (ἀγορασμός) "purchasing, purchase, auction"
מחלף (πλόκαμος) "locks, wicker baskets"
מחמד (ἐπιθύμημα) "object of desire"
מחנה (σκήνημα) "camp, dwelling place, nest"
מחסה (ἐπισκιασμός) "shading, covering"
מזרק (περιρραντήριον) "utensil for besprinkling"
מזמור (ὑμνάριον) "hymn, ode"
מזלג (ζάγκλον) "reaping-hook, sickle"
מזון (θοίναμα) "meal, feast"
מזבה (θυσιαστήριον) "altar"
מורג (τρυγάνη) "tribula"
מורא (τρόμος) "trembling, quaking, quivering from fear"
מוקש (δίκτυον) "net"
מוקד (αἴθων) "a burning heat, fire"
מופה (φάσμα) "apparition, phantom, appearance, phenomenon"
מוסדה (κτίσμα) "colony, foundation"
מהתלה (ἀπάτημα) "deceit, stratagem"
מדרש (ἐρώτημα) "that which is asked, question"
מדע (εἴδημα) "knowledge"
מגזר (πρίων) "saw"
מגלה (κυλίνδριον) "roll of a book"
מגור (ἀγυρμός) "gathering, crowd"
מבצר (φραγμός) "fencing in, blocking up, fortification"
מבטח (πίστωμα) "assurance, warrant, pledge"
מבחר (ἀφαίρεμα) "that which is taken away as the choice part"
מבוסה (πατησμός) "treading on"
מבול (πλήσμη, πλήμμυρα) "fill, flood-tide"
מאפה (ὀπτήσιμος) "for roasting"
מאכל (φάγημα) "food, victuals'
מאבוס (φάτνωμα) "offered work, projecting platform"
משה (δάνεισμα) "a loan"
מרצע (χάραγμα) "any mark engraved, imprinted, or branded, the serpent's mark, brand on a camel"
מרעה (φρούρημα) "that which is watched or guarded"
מרכבה (πορευμα) "carriage"
מרוץ (τρόχιμος) "running, hasting"
מרגמה (ἀραγμός) "crashing shower of stones, beating of the breast in grief,"
מרבד (ῥάμμα) "anything sewn or stitched, seam, hem" (ῥαπτός_
מקבה (σκάμμα) "that which has been dug, action of digging" (σκαπτός)
מקבה (κόπανος) "chopper, cleaver"
מצנפה (στεφάνωμα) "crown, wreath, plants used for making garland"
מצוה (θέσμιον) "laws, customs, rites, agreements
משבה (στρέμμα) "that which is twisted, conspiracy, band of conspirators"
מבגדה (ἀθέτημα) "breach of faith, transgression, cancellation, annulment of grant"
משכרה (μίσθωμα) "price agreed on in hiring, contract-price
אודיע (γνωρίζω) "make known'
אושיע (σωΐζω) "to save"
אוחיל (ἐλπίζω) "hope for"
אמטיר (νοτίζω) "make wet, moisten"
אשמיע (ἀκουτίζω) "make to hear"
אשכיל (σοφίζω) "make wise"
אהציל (ἐκ-σωΐζω) "keep safe"
אציעה (κοιτάζω) "make to sleep, put to bed
תושיה (σοφιστής) "master of one's craft, adept, expert"
תחנת (σκηνίτης) dweller in tents or booths, of nomad tribes
תלבשת (κάλυψις) "covering"
תלונה (ἔγκλησις) "accusation"
תמרור (πικρότης) "pungency, of taste, bitterness"
תנובה (φύτευσις) "fruits"
תנחוה (παράκλησις) "calling to one's aid"
תעלה (κατακλείς) "locks on a canal"
תענך (δαφνιακός) "belonging to the bay"
תעצמה (δημόσιος) "belonging to the people"
תפלה (ἀντιβόλησις) "prayer"
תפלצה (πλάσις) "moulding, conformation"
תפסה (πήδησις) "leaping"
תפת (ὄπτησις) "roasting, baking of"
תקוה (προσδοκίας) "looking for, expectation"
תרבות (κάρπωσις) "offering offruits, use, profit"
תרומה (αἵρεσις) "taking, choice"
תרועה (σύριγξις) "playing on the syrinx"
תרועה (κρότησις) "clapping, striking (as a sign of relief)
תרח (χωρίτης) "countryman, inhabitant of a country town"
תרן (δόρυ) "of timber, esp. for ships"
תשבץ (ποίκιλσις) "embroidery"
תשומת (κατάθεσις) "down-payment"
אשפה (ἀσπίς) 'shield
חגורה (ζωστήρ) 'warrior belt
מחגור (περίζωμα) 'girdle worn round the loins
חנית (ἔγχος) 'spear
חץ (οἰστός) "arrow"
קבל (ἐμβολῇ) 'battering-ram
שלט (πέλτῃ) 'small light shield
שריון (θωράκιον) 'breastwork, cuirass
כובע (κύμβαχος) 'the crown of a helmet
צנה (αἰγίς) 'the skin-shield of Zeus
מגן (ὅπλον) 'shield
פלתי (ὁπλίτης) 'hoplite
צבאות (σημεία) 'military standard, a body of troops under one standard
שנאן (ἀπήνῃ) 'four-wheeled wagon, war-chariot'
גלית (ὁπλίτης) 'heavy-armed hence Goliath
כרתי (κουρῆτες) 'young men, warriors
כרי (κόροι) 'young warriors, cf. spartans
https://vivliothikiagiasmatos.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/joseph-yahuda-hebrew-is-greek.pdf
Nasruddin
Posts: 137
Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2017 4:58 pm

Re: Phoenician Atlantis

Post by Nasruddin »

Poseidon was god of the sea, whose sacred animal was the bull. The Greek myth of Europa is that she was a Phoenician princess, abducted by a god in the form of a bull, taken to an island in the sea where she gave birth to two sons (Minos and Rhadamanthys) who became Great Kings of a naval empire, with the bull as their motif, and later the Judges of the Underworld, deciding who went to the Isles of the Blessed or to Tartarus (situated to the far West). Perhaps here there is version of the Atlantis myth.
User avatar
Joseph D. L.
Posts: 1399
Joined: Sat Nov 11, 2017 2:10 am

Re: Phoenician Atlantis

Post by Joseph D. L. »

May not be related but interesting nonetheless. At least to me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mcgBCWqiqg
User avatar
billd89
Posts: 1339
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2020 6:27 pm
Location: New England, USA

Baia: not related but interesting to me

Post by billd89 »

User avatar
billd89
Posts: 1339
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2020 6:27 pm
Location: New England, USA

Re: Tripod?

Post by billd89 »

Let's talk about tripods.

Camillo Miola, "The Oracle" (1919):
Image
Ethan wrote: Fri Oct 18, 2019 5:04 am (Phoenician and Greek)
קריא, קרוא 'renowned, famous' (κλειτός)
...
תרפים (τρίπους) tripod, i.e. three-legged cauldron, ...
BM 1917,1210.1: Python (fl.360 BC–320 BC), red-figured bell-krater showing Orestes at Delphi, with Athena, Apollo and "Furies". Paestum, Italy, c.340 BC.
Image


M. Volteius M.f., Crawford 385/5, 75 BC. Ex Sydenham, ex Niggler, ex Benz
Image

Therefore, any tripod furniture, esp. a three-legged cauldron. The ubiquitous use of bronze at ancient Greek sanctuaries (both as votive offerings and cultic equipment) leads us to consider bronze tripods primarily. Is the Hebrew word “Teraphim” to mean generally ‘oracular paraphernalia’? In other words, was some superstition or presumption attached to three-legged (therefore ‘idolatrous’) items in bronze, irrespective of the broader meaning? And was that specified in later rabbinical ruling(s)?

I am actually curious about a line in Orphic Fragment 1094 Fr. 377 F (245 K.), 17-18, a poem which is considered to have been Judaized in the 1st C. BC or earlier:

οὗτος γὰρ χάλκειον ἐς οὐρανὸν ἐστήρικται = "For this Chalkeion {brazen Cauldron?} is firmly set in Heaven"


Ah yes, the "golden dome of Heaven" symbolism. A dome is merely the cauldron shape inverted.

Image

There is a relation between the Chalkeion (brass cauldron; a bronze vessel, a copper caldron, kettle, pot) and the Tripus/Tibên. (If Homeric references are relevant: Il. 5, 504 and 17, 425; Od. 3, 2.) See Philip Bosman, "The Dodona bronze revisited" in Acta Classica [2016], pp.186-7:
In a thorough source study, Cook proposed the harmonisation of the ancient evidence:12 the Dodona ‘gong’ (as he prefers to translate χαλκεῖον/ χαλκίον), was initially Demon’s ring of resonant tripods and only later, after a temple was built at the Dodona sanctuary, did the gong become the artistic μαστιγοφόρος and λέβης on columns described by Polemon and Strabo.13 He also upholds the view of later sources that the χαλκεῖον had an oracular function, which ‘from first to last’ was apotropaic, that is it was a way of warding off evil influences at the sanctuary. Cook’s synthesis fits remarkably well into what has since been established from the archaeological work at Dodona, and the profound changes the oracle underwent from the late 4th century BC and particularly during the reign of Pyrrhus (306-302, 297-272 BC). The evidence indeed points to an open-air sanctuary until the late 5th/early 4th century,14 and a reconceptualisation of the famous χαλκεῖον could have coincided with the expansion and rejuvenation of the site under Molossian rule.15 In view of scant information on the actual oracular method at Dodona, it is, furthermore, not inconceivable that an initial apotropaic/prophylactic role for the χαλκεῖον could be transformed, in later eras, into a role in the divinatory process itself,16 especially since some oracular practices at this site appear to have diminished over time and even to have fallen out of practice.17

12 Cook 1902:13, 28. This is the argument of the first section of Cook’s article, 5-13. In the second part (14-28) Cook argues particularly for Polemon’s version as a cultic ἀποτρόπαιον which, despite amassing a huge amount of material, fails to present a cogent case. Parke 1967:86-93 covers the same terrain as Cook’s first section. He declares (p. 88) the origin of the saying as not his real concern, but seems to accept the harmonisation (cf. p. 91). A more recent treatment of the topic is by Dieterle 2007:62-67, who is reluctant to accept Demon’s version...
13 Cook 1902:8-9 is prepared to trace this version back to Aristotle, based on the Suda entry, Apostol. 6.43, Cod. Coislinianus 177 and Eustath. Od.
2.73.3, as a corrective to Demon in his own Παροιμίαι. Demon’s dating ‘precedes’ that of Philochorus, to whom only the date of 306 BC can be linked. Aristotle (d. 322 BC) seems slightly too early to have been part of this discussion; hence most scholars prefer to interpret the second-century Miletan historian as ‘Aristeides’ instead of ‘Aristotle’, as in Stephanus; cf. Leutsch and Schneidewin 1958:162.
14 Dakaris 2000:12-14; Dieterle 2007:105-07.
15 Dakaris 2000:14-34; Meyer 2013:126-35.
16 That is, that the sound of the χαλκεῖον either enthused the prophetesses or that they interpreted the sound as an answer to oracular enquiries.

Clement of Alexandria Protrepticus 2.17.2-18.2 = OF 34K = 588iB records an Orphic myth of the Dionysian mysteries: the dismembered infant Dionysos is stewed in a cauldron. See Radcliffe Edmonds, "Recycling Laertes' Shroud: More on Orphism and Original Sin" [2008], online.

The Gurob papyrus certainly does provide evidence for a Dionysiac ritual in the third century BCE that makes reference to the dismemberment, as well as for the syncretism of different types of Dionysiac cults current in Egypt in the period. [...] Bernabé claims not only that the fact that the dismemberment is enacted implies that the point of the ritual is the salvation of human beings from their Titanic original sin, but that the text explicitly asks Brimo for salvation from the crimes of these lawless ancestors. [...] However, the plea for Brimo to save and even the reference to some sort of recompense (ποινὰς) do not provide evidence for the meaning of the ritual ... Of course, the gold tablets from Pelinna do provide evidence for Dionysos as the one who, in conjunction with Persephone, frees human beings from the burden of previously committed crimes. “Tell Persephone that Bacchios himself set you free.”


Certainly, a 'bronze cauldron set in heaven' must be a profound an ancient religious symbol. Of course, I am most interested in other nebulously related but occult images of the Zosimos vessel, Jung's mixing-bowl, the Hermetic Krater, and finally that "seething cauldron" my Edelsteins perhaps adopted (in part) from Cerfaux's 1924 thesis of a Jewish Mystery, following E.R. Goodenough's (1935) time elaboration, just three years before composing their own textbook. And against their nemesis (I suppose), Father Festugière's January article was certainly another key influence upon the Edelsteins (if not the inciting factor along these lines) in the Spring 1938. Last but not least, as recorded in a much later oral history (06-15-1957: @22:26-23:38), Jim Burwell explained the significance of the tripod motif at some length (as he supposedly heard in a disquisition by Bill W., during the Fall 1938); this does not appear coincidental but rather demonstrates the point.

The Orphic cauldron is barely distinguishable from the Hermetic krater: the latter is a symbol of the cosmic baptismal font, where the Great Nous resides and the Lesser nous returns for purification. Understanding the Program (its purpose, the Steps, etc.) is "gnosis" in fact: the inter-related terms of Gnosis, Alchemy, and Baptism are all fundamental to the Edelsteins' 1938 expression of 'Psychic Change'. See Kyle Fraser, Zosimos of Panopolis and the Book of Enoch: Alchemy as Forbidden Knowledge [2004], p.143:
The reference to the krater, or baptismal bowl, is also highly significant. Tractate IV of our Corpus Hermeticum, The Krater or Monad 37, describes a spiritual baptism of the soul in nous or mind. This baptism imparts the secret gnôsis which liberates us from material enslavement: ‘All those who heeded the proclamation and were baptized in mind (ebaptisanto tou noos), these received the gnôsis and became complete men, having received mind’ (C.H. 4.4). The Greek word for ‘baptize’, baptizein and its cognates, is connected, etymologically and conceptually, to the alchemic terms baphê and katabaphê which I translate as ‘tincture’. The different kinds of katabaphai which Zosimos discusses in On the Letter Omega and The Final Quittance are different ways of tincturing or ‘baptizing’ metals. This ‘baptism’ of metals is, for Zosimos, a purification; and it is the external sign of a deeper spiritual baptism, a baptism precisely of the sort that is described in C.H. IV. In referring Theosebeia to this Hermetic tractate, and to its central concept of ‘baptism’, Zosimos is reminding her of the true meaning of alchemy — the Hermetic meaning.


Tertullian (c.200 AD) De Praescriptionibus adversus Haereticos 36 records a story (c.120 AD?) that the Apostle John had been plunged in a vat of boiling oil: here is a visual example of the metallic Chalkeion/Tripus that I envision.

Albrecht Dürer, The Attempted Martyrdom of Saint John, in a Cauldron of Burning Oil, Under Domitian, 1498
Image

To wit, in the 1938 multilith and some pages after the "seething cauldron": You are "burned up." Or, as our Anonymous Authors (i.e. Jews -- not Christians) elaborated in the earliest surviving draft of 'Wilson's Original Story':
Lines 890-5. I was annoyed, irked and confused by the attitudes they took, the beliefs they held and the things they had done in the name of Christ. People like myself had been burned and whole populations put to fire and sword on the pretext they did not believe as Christians did.

User avatar
billd89
Posts: 1339
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2020 6:27 pm
Location: New England, USA

Chalkeion, recently discovered

Post by billd89 »

Besides the Tripod Cauldron discussed above, an alternate or parallel reading is available:
οὗτος γὰρ χάλκειον ἐς οὐρανὸν ἐστήρικται = "For this Chalkeion {brazen shield?} is firmly set in Heaven"

As in the χάλκειον γένος, the 'Chalkeion-kind' have been deposited in a holy shield for a transformative purpose of begetting warriors. With the verb κατατίθημι, this Chalkeion symbolizes magical elements of the contest, the journey and safe-keeping; later, Herakles would ride in another Chalkeion/Lebes replicating those elements.
Cradles

The nurse had various contrivances in which to place the children after they were lulled to sleep. We read that Alcmena cradled her children in a shield:
χάλκειον κατέθηκεν ἐπ ̓ ἀσπίδα.121 {deposited in a shield as a Chalkeion}

The scholiast on Callimachus {c.250 BC}, Jove, 48, alluding to this passage of Theocritus {c.260 BC}, says that military men were accustomed to place their children in shields after birth that they might become vigorous and strong.

121 The Idylls of Theokritos 24.1 "Once upon a time when the little Herakles was ten months old, Alcmena of Midea took him and Iphicles that was his younger by a night, and laid them, washed both and suckled full, in the fine brazen buckler which Amphitryon received as spoils from Pterelaüs, and setting her hand upon their heads said 'Sleep my babes, sleep sweetly and light..."

This image of a golden shield and armor carried by a semi-divine mermaid was a common and probably complex, varied theme. See for example, the Nereid Thetis Riding Hippocampus w/ 'Achille's Shield', c.350 BC
Image

In a myth complex w. frescos illustrating Herakles, this seems relevant. It is the image of a Chalkeion held by two tritons (i.e. ichthyocentaurs) in the recently discovered Tomb of Cerebus near Naples, IT:

Image

Is it perhaps Poseidon's Chalkeion?
Statius, Thebaid 1. 55 ff (trans. Mozley) (Roman epic c.1st A.D.) :
"[In the train of Neptune-Poseidon] the winds and tempest are silent and with tranquil song proceed the Tritones (Tritons) who bear his armour...

On the other hand, could this be the four-horse team Chariot of Helios in the Cauldron crossing the Ocean at night (PEG F 7 = F 4 D. = F 11 W.)?

Triumph of Neptune Mosaic from Utique, Tunisia, c.150 AD:
Image

In frescos illustrating Herakles, we recall that Amphitryon's brazen shield was -- in one myth -- the cradle of baby Herakles. In another myth, Herakles fought Nereus, a Triton who may have held/owned Neptune's Shield. And Herakles would take Helios Geryon's cauldron to cross the Ocean. (There were yet other myths about the Shield of Ares/Mars, perhaps conflated here?)

Triton or Nereus

The written myths show Heracles fighting a metamorphosing sea god called "the Old Man of the Sea." The scenes look a lot like this one of Heracles fighting Triton. A note for those researching further: The Greek for the name "Old Man of the Sea" is "Helios Geryon." In the Iliad, 'The Old Man of the Sea' is the father of the Nereids. Although not named, that would be Nereus. In the Odyssey, 'The Old Man of the Sea' refers to Nereus, Proteus, and Phorkys. Hesiod identifies 'The Old Man of the Sea' with Nereus alone.

(ll. 233-239) And Okeanos begat Nereus, the eldest of his children, who is true and lies not: and men call him 'The Old Man' because he is trusty and gentle and does not forget the laws of righteousness, but thinks just and kindly thoughts.

Theogony, Translated by Evelyn-White

Helios Geryon has a Magical Cup which doubles as a Divine Boat! This must allude to a brass cauldron or krater with mystical meaning; Tsagalis (2022, p.163) provides a foundational literary summary to this part of the Herakles myth:
Mimnermos (fr. 12.5–10 IEG) {c.340 BC} is another early authority (but later than Peisandros {c.640 BC}). D'Alessio (2014, 91–2) has suggested that the choice of the cauldron by Eumelus Corinthius {c.740 BC} may have had a specific mythological connotation, pointing to the Sun's 'rebirth' or 'rejuvenation' the next day, as is the case with similar uses of the cauldron in the Archaic and early Classical Period. For Indo-European parallels, see West (2007) 203–7; on Eumelus, Titanomachy Fragment 12 EGEF, see Tsagalis (2017) 70–3. The first (certain) author who reports that Herakles sailed across the Okeanos by Helios cauldron is Agatharchides of Knidos {c.150 BC} (in Phot. Bibl. 443a [VII 139.37–8 Henry]), followed by Alexandros of Ephesos {75 BC} (fr. 38 SH). D'Alessio (2014, 91) interprets the use of a cauldron {=λέβης, common term for 'pot' or basin} (instead of a cup or bowl) as 'rationalistic' and cites Euphorion {c.200 BC}(fr. 52 CA = 72 Lightfoot), who mentions a bronze light-vessel (ἄκατος), toying with the word's secondary meaning of 'boat-shaped cup'. 394 Finglass (2021, 136) maintains that the use of Helios' bowl by Herakles stressed the 'greatness of his achievement'. He also argues that several details of this episode found in later sources may have originated from Peisandros' narrative.


None of this contradicts the (Jewish) Biblical understanding of the Chalkeion as a brass/copper cauldron (בַקַּלַּ֙חַת֙ = kettle): see 1 Samuel 2:14, Chronicles 35:13, Job 41:31. But where Orphic Fragment 1094 Fr. 377 F (245 K.), 17-18 may indicate a pre-1st C. BC Judaized poem, so similar Jewish representations of the Demiurge as a Charioteer/Pilot are especially fascinating. Indeed, several Israeli synagogue mosaics of the Roman Period point to a definite Jewish interpretation of the Demiurge as Helios riding such a shield.

From the Hammath Tiberias synagogue, here is Helios/Malakbel -- a very visual portrayal of the Jewish 'Messenger of God' -- holding a pale blue disc (another Chalkeion?) resembling a darkened sun-cross (the Moon, perhaps?):
Image

In the same tomb: at the Gate of the Underworld, Herakles drags Cerberus; Hermes holds a herald's wand, at right.
Image

MFA: Attic Red Figure Kylix, c.520 BC
Image
Heracles drags Cerberus, the hound of Hades, from the underworld on a lead as one of his twelve labours. The hero wears a lion-skin cape and raises a bow to subdue the beast. He is accompanied by the god Hermes, guide of the dead, who wears a peaked cap and holds a herald's wand (kerykeion) in his hand.

Post Reply