Biblical Criticism & History Forum - earlywritings.com

Posted: **Tue Jan 05, 2021 7:52 pm**

Pollux 6. 26 “τὸ γὰρ νηφαλιεύειν τὸ νηφάλια θύειν ἔλεγον, ὅπερ ἐστὶ τὸ χρῆσθαι θυσίαις ἀοίνοις, ὧν τὰς ἐναντίας θυσίας οἰνοσπόνδους ἔλεγον”.

"νηφάλια θύειν... ἐστὶ τὸ χρῆσθαι θυσίαις ἀοίνοις."

e.g, Colson, Philo Judaeus, Vol.3, pp.384;385 for νηφάλια θύειν = offering of sobriety,

θυσίαις ἀοίνοις = wine-less sacrifices.

Where is an English language translation, free online?

Posted: **Tue Jan 05, 2021 8:05 pm**

billd89 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 05, 2021 7:52 pm Pollux 6. 26 “τὸ γὰρ νηφαλιεύειν τὸ νηφάλια θύειν ἔλεγον, ὅπερ ἐστὶ τὸ χρῆσθαι θυσίαις ἀοίνοις, ὧν τὰς ἐναντίας θυσίας οἰνοσπόνδους ἔλεγον”.

"νηφάλια θύειν... ἐστὶ τὸ χρῆσθαι θυσίαις ἀοίνοις."

e.g, Colson, Philo Judaeus, Vol.3, pp.384;385 for νηφάλια θύειν = offering of sobriety,

θυσίαις ἀοίνοις = wine-less sacrifices.

Where is an English language translation, free online?

The following may not bode well for you:

The Past is a Foreign Pantry, “Honey-Cakes: 2nd century AD” (blog post): My final burst of research took bloody ages because I spent half a day trying to find an English translation of the 2nd century Greek grammarian Julius Pollux’s Onomasticon; one of the earliest dictionaries of ancient Greek phrases and words which sounds just about as exciting as a wet Monday afternoon. In Onomasticon there’s a chapter entitled ‘On meals [and] the names of crimes’, because those two topics are so obviously linked, which mentions honey-cakes. I was therefore hopeful that Julius Pollux could provide the final piece of information I was looking for (or at the very least the dictionary definition of ‘honey-cake’) but it turns out no one’s bothered to translate Onomasticon into anything other than Greek or Latin. [Link.]

Posted: **Tue Jan 05, 2021 10:23 pm**

Thank you, Ben!

I also spent two hours - surely: I made some mistake, misspelled smthg, missed the most obvious alternative, etc. - before concluding 'It's just not there!'

Posted: **Tue Jan 12, 2021 12:01 am**

billd89 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 05, 2021 7:52 pm Pollux 6. 26 "νηφάλια θύειν... ἐστὶ τὸ χρῆσθαι θυσίαις ἀοίνοις."
the offering of sobriety...is to practice/ avail oneself/ make use of wine-less sacrifices

Greek text Link:

Pollux 6.26: νήφειν, νηφαλίως ἔχειν, νηφαντικὸν εἶναι• τὸ γὰρ νηφαλιεύειν τὸ νηφάλια θύειν ἔλεγον, ὅπερ ἐστὶ τὸ χρῆσθαι θυσίαις ἀοίνοις, ὧν τὰς ἐναντίας θυσίας οἰνοσπόνδους ὠνόμαζον. ἔπινον δέ, ὡς οἱ νῦν, τὸ συνέπινον καὶ ποτοὺς, ἐποιοῦντο ξενοφῶν ἔφη• ‘οἱ δὲ μῆδοι καὶ ἔπινον καὶ ηὐλοῦντο.’ κρατῖνος μέντοι τὸν οἶνον μάρωνα εἴρηκεν•

My trans.:
To be SOBER, to remain SOBERLY, one who is SOBER• For nēphalieuein the ‘sober sacrifice’ is named, those who are making wine-less sacrifices, (or) who are against sacrifices offered with wine, called that name. They who were drinking of (-?), (- with that?), who drink (-?) together and (-?) drinking-bout, as Xenophon claimed• ‘The Medes drank and played the flute.’[1] Cratinus[2] however {abstained from?} the Marona wine [3], it is said.

1. Xenophon, Cyropaedia 1.5.7: “the Medes drank and revelled and listened to the music of the flute and indulged themselves to the full with all sorts of merry-making.”
2. Cratinus was a famous alcoholic, c.425 BC.
3. Thracian Marona (Maroneia) had an ancient Dionysus cult, c.750 BC. Following Greek mytho-history, this sweet, strong wine was a celebrated commodity c.500-350 BC.

I found this Latin ‘translation’ which muddles abit, I suspect:

jejunare, sobrie habere, sobrium esse. Nam νηφαλιεύειν, sobria immolare significat, quod est sacra facere vino carentia. quorum contraria sacra vini libationes vocarunt. Sed & biberunt, ut nunc dictur. Combiberunt vero, & Potationes fecere, dixit Xenophon. Medi vero, Bibebant, & in tentoriis pernoctabant. Verum Cratinus vinum, etiam Marona, vocavit: Nec curavi tantum, nec marona bibi.

My trans.:
To be ABSTINENT, to have SOBRIETY, to be SOBER. For νηφαλιεύειν, meaning a ‘sober sacrifice’ performed without wine. All those who are against sacred wine-offerings are so-called. Also, the cup, that now takes its name (viz., sober-cup). Study (TEMPERANCE [4]) indeed, & be making (TEMPERATE) drinking, said Xenophon[5]. Moderate indeed, drink (SOBERLY), & pitch the night’s tent in (SOBRIETY). Truly Cratinus invoked the wine, and Marona: 'Not only have I taken care, nor have I drank the Marona (wine)'.

4. σωφροσύνῃ = soundness of mind, prudence, discretion
5. Xenophon, Cyropaedia 1.5.8: “it greatly conduces to their learning self-control that they see their elders also living temperately … And besides, they teach them self-restraint in … drinking”

It is a strange 'definition' of SOBRIETY; most of the examples are alcoholic. What am I missing here? Any corrections appreciated, thank you!

Posted: **Tue Jan 12, 2021 7:08 am**

"Pollux's Onomasticon, the Oldest Specimen of Encylopedism Surviving from Antiquity" c.175 AD

Julius Pollux's (Ἰούλιος Πολυδεύκηςis) Onomasticon, a thesaurus of Attic Greek synonyms and phrases arranged thematically in ten books, is the oldest specimen of encyclopedism surviving from antiquity. It is also the only surviving Greek lexical work with an onomastic structure— not an alphabetic sequence of lemmata but topical assemblages of synonyms.

One of the most significant intellectuals of the later second century CE, the apogee of Hellenism under the Roman Empire, Pollux,,,,

William Smith's famous A Dictionary of Greek and Roman Antiquities draws from Pollux, but nothing from 6.26 appears there.

Posted: **Fri Jan 15, 2021 11:58 am**

Reference, in Latin, see Karl Wilhelm Dindorf's Onomasticon cum annotationibus interpretum Vol. 5, Part 1 [1824], pp.33-4.
https://books.google.com/books?id=Xl1GAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA34

Posted: **Fri Jan 15, 2021 8:05 pm**

R.A.B. Mynors’ Desiderius Erasmus Collected Works of Erasmus: Adages II VII 1 to III III 100, Vol. 34 [1992], p.127

2.9.95/ LB 2.684a :

Nephalium sacrum A nephalian sacrifice
νηφάλιος θυσία, A nephalian (or sober) sacrifice, will not be out of place when used of an abstemious meal or of one which is exceedingly frugal and sober. In Athens this form of sacrifice used to be offered to Mnemosyne, to Aurora, to the Sun, to the Moon, to the Nymphs, to Venus and to Urania; for in such a rite there was no pouring of a libation of wine, but of water mingled with honey. So, more or less, Suidas. This is also mentioned by Julius Pollux, Book 6 Chapter 3, who adds that a verb nêphaleuein meant the same as 'to perform a nephalian sacrifice.' This form of offering they called aoinos, wineless, and in the same way the others, in which wine was used, were oinosponda, offered with wine. Seleucus, cited by Athenaeus in Book 2, says it was not the custom in the old days for a quantity of wine or anything else in the way of luxuries to be introduced into sacrifices. For since sacrifices were performed in honour of the gods (and that was the reason too why they called them thoinai, thaliai, and methai: thoinai because they drank wine for the gods' sake, thaliae because they came together and dined in honour of the gods, and methai because, as Aristotle suggested, it was after the sacrifice that they drank wine), this was not a proper place to put the business of the stomach first. …

Correcting my rough Greek trans.:

To be SOBER, to remain SOBERLY, one who is SOBER• For nēphalieuein the ‘sober sacrifice’ is named; those who are making wine-less sacrifices, as opposed to all who offer wine-sacrifices, so-called. ...

Correcting my rough Latin trans.:

To be ABSTINENT, to have SOBRIETY, to be SOBER. For νηφαλιεύειν, meaning a ‘sober sacrifice’ performed without wine. The contrary of all those who make sacred wine-offerings, so-called. ...

Biblical Criticism & History Forum - earlywritings.com

English language trans. of the Onomasticon of Julius Pollux of Naucratis ??

English language trans. of the Onomasticon of Julius Pollux of Naucratis ??

Re: English language trans. of the Onomasticon of Julius Pollux of Naucratis ??

YES: the untranslated Onomasticon

My best effort trans. of Pollux 6.26

The Onomasticon of Julius Pollux: Oldest Encyclopaedia

Re: Onomasticon 'Annotationes'

Re: CORRECTING my trans. of Pollux 6.26