Critical Study on Chronology of the Ancient World

Discuss the world of the Greeks, Romans, Babylonians, and Egyptians.
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billd89
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Re: Putin Compares Himself to Peter The Great

Post by billd89 »

Where current events are certainly driven by a fantastical/farcical history re-imagined, you need only read what the Dictator himself has said.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/ ... sian-lands

Vladimir Putin has compared himself to the 18th-century Russian tsar Peter the Great, drawing a parallel between what he portrayed as their twin historic quests to win back Russian lands. “Peter the Great waged the great northern war for 21 years. It would seem that he was at war with Sweden, he took something from them. He did not take anything from them, he returned [what was Russia’s],” the Russian president said on Thursday after a visiting an exhibition dedicated to the tsar.

After months of denials that Russia is driven by imperial ambitions in Ukraine, Putin appeared to embrace that mission, comparing Peter’s campaign with Russia’s current military actions. “Apparently, it is also our lot to return [what is Russia’s] and strengthen [the country]. And if we proceed from the fact that these basic values form the basis of our existence, we will certainly succeed in solving the tasks that we face.”

Solving Tasks. RU has lost so many Generals in the latest abortive 'task', Putin is recalling his retired task-masters. No joke.

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Leucius Charinus
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Re: Critical Study on Chronology of the Ancient World (C14 gJudas=4th CE)

Post by Leucius Charinus »

Secret Alias wrote: Sat Jun 11, 2022 4:22 pm
The Gospel of Judas and the Nag Hammadi Codex I can be scientifically dated to the 4th century by C14
Mountainman bring forward your subjective and utterly ridiculous interpretation of the C14 evidence again. I need a laugh. https://peterkirby.com/gospel-of-judas- ... sults.html
According to Kirby:
  • However, P. R. F. Brown can be credited, at least, for raising interesting questions regarding the distinction between the calibrated dates and uncalibrated data and for asking the question of how Jull arrived at his final results, and thus for prompting some of the further questioning on these matters, including this blog post.
And you are also missing the very salient point that the final report for the UA C14 test of 2005 has not yet been published. Do you understand this simple little fact? Peter Head wrote that "there were some problems". I think there may have been non disclosure agreements between UA and Nat Geo that have "delayed" the publication of the final report. Maybe there's an update? IDK.

As I noted on my own page the scholars have been trying to work out what the final report might say. The most recent comment that I have seen has a C14 curve covering the entire 4th century.

Radiocarbon Dating the Gnostics after Nicaea

See Radiometric Dating of the Gospel of Judas by Christian Askeland (10 March 2015) ...

"My estimation following Peter Head’s thesis leaves a radiometric result in the late third through the end of the fourth century."

http://mountainman.com.au/essenes/C14%2 ... ospels.htm


Laugh all the way to the radiocarbon lab. But if you've been laughing without laying your eyes on the final report you must be pretty tired by now.

BTW did you read the update about the C14 test on the Nag Hammadi codex?
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billd89
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Bored Chinese Housewife Spent Years Falsifying Russian History on Wikipedia

Post by billd89 »

Wikipedia is somewhat reliable, but check that info...
https://www.vice.com/en/article/pkgbwm/ ... -wikipedia
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Leucius Charinus
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Re: Critical Study on Chronology of the Ancient World

Post by Leucius Charinus »

"In the 9th century, Isidor of Seville presented almost a hundred epistles and decrees he wrote on behalf of «more ancient» Roman bishops ranging from «contemporaries to the apostles», with several letters from alleged correspondents of imagined popes and acts of previously unknown cathedrals.

These famous decretals «...were taken without any doubt... In the following century, Prum abbot Repinee referred to them and the compilers of similar works kept using them until the 12th century when Gratian put them at the base of his book Decretum, an extensive set of medieval clerical laws, and built on this basis remain till this day» (ref 7, p. 420).
«The falsity of these documents was proven easily with major anachronisms and blunders... The time of compilation of this book should be considered after the 6th Paris Council held in 829 because much was borrowed from that cathedral by the counterfeiter, but before the Quercy Cathedral held in 857 when Karl The Bald, as they say, already shown these decretals as authoritative documents... Moreover, they now think that these documents were written in Metz and Ginkmar even says that this collection was brought from Spain by Riculf holding the Metz Department from 787 to 814»(ref 7, p. 418).

Another famous clerical forgery of the same time is the so-called «Gift of Constantine», on which the Roman curia based its claims to secular power. A huge number of documents were forged by monks of The Middle Ages to substantiate their rights of land ownership."

For a modern treatment of these church industry forgeries see:

https://pseudo-isidore.com/
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billd89
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Re: Russia Trolls History

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Nothing the Soviets say can be trusted. Nothing!
https://www.bloomsbury.com/us/putins-ru ... 350203150/
since the pro-democracy protests in 2011–12, the Russian government has hamstrung independent research and aligned state institutions in the promotion of militant patriotism. The entire state machinery has been mobilized to construe a single, glorious historical narrative with the focus on Soviet victory over Nazi Germany. Putin's Russia and the Falsification of History examines the intricate networks in Russia that engage in “historymaking.” Whether it is the Holocaust or Soviet mass terror, Tsars or Stalin, the regime promotes a syncretic interpretation of Russian history that supports the notion of a strong state and authoritarian rule. That interpretation finds its way into new monuments, exhibitions, and quasi-professional associations. In addition to administrative measures of control, the Russian state has been using the penal code to censor critical perspectives on history
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billd89
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Americans, Europeans have NO IDEA of the Kremlin Propaganda, Goal

Post by billd89 »

There has been a decade of brainwashing the Russian people with the most perverse revanchism. Putin's long-game has been to prep his populace for WW3: European annihilation.

The Kremlin has been funding this Neo-Soviet revisionist drivel, e.g. "Comrade Hitler", since around 2011. As with the Ancient and academic (Fomenko's garbage) so with Modern RU pop culture -- it's diabolical Fake History, check it out:
https://mobile.twitter.com/sumlenny/sta ... 1621420032

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billd89
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The Anti-Christ Rules from Moscow, Now

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Link: “Vladimir Putin Pantocrator/Almighty/Ruler of All”

Patriarch Kirill of Moscow has gone on record calling Mr. Putin a miracle of God and embracing the medieval concept of Byzantine symphonia as an appropriate model for church-state relations in 21st-century Russia.

The idea warrants abit of elaboration: that Soviet Abomination in the Kremlin has been blessed by the RU Church as "Pantocrator".
1999 paper, explaining Orthodox Theocracy
Another important factor which helps us understand the historical background of Orthodoxy is the practice of theocracy or political theology. As Hans Kung explains, a "symphony" or harmony of empire and imperial church was the demand of the time. The Christian emperors saw themselves as representatives of God's sole rule over the whole earth. Justinian I (527-565) regarded himself as the earthly governor for the heavenly "pantocrator" and proudly called himself "cosmocrator." What developed in the East thus, was not a church state, as was to develop in the West, but a state church. What counted for the Christian emperors was not just the New Testament - "One God, one faith, one baptism," but also "one empire, one law, one church" of Constantine and Justinian. This characteristic of the Hellenistic-Byzantine paradigm can be seen constantly from Byzantium to Moscow, where the Russian czar was even to have absolute power.
Putin sees himself as Tsar? Of course he does.

SLAY THE BEAST -- the ANTICHRIST MUST BE KILLED WITH FIRE!
crystallize
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Re: Critical Study on Chronology of the Ancient World

Post by crystallize »

Hi there.

Chapter 2. Astronomical method in chronology (Eclipses)

§ 1. Basic facts about eclipses
§ 2. "History of the Peloponnesian War" by Thucydides
§ 3. Solar, Lunar eclipses and chronology
§ 4. Examples of astronomical dating (Titus Livy, Homer, Thakelot)
§ 5. Discussing the final list of Ginzel
§ 6. Herodotus and his "History"

https://mega.nz/file/YSYnUaRS#e2ZfSgxK9 ... yt5mexMl3I
crystallize
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Re: Critical Study on Chronology of the Ancient World

Post by crystallize »

Also here is a revised Chapter 1 with some amendments in the text and also with page numbers, contents and a mobile-friendly formatting:

Chapter 1. Antique literature

§ 1. Tacitus and Poggio Bracciolini
§ 2. Literary hoaxes and fakes
§ 3. Figures of the Rennaissance
§ 4. Review of the origins of the most important compositions of the Antiquity
§ 5. On possibility of antique literature in general and its specific genres in particular
§ 6. Distribution of genres of antique literature overtime
§ 7. The beginning of Roman chronicle
§ 8. Roman calendar

https://mega.nz/file/MHZVFIqD#qpylNRjzZ ... PNQx62C24k
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DCHindley
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Re: Critical Study on Chronology of the Ancient World

Post by DCHindley »

crystallize wrote: Sat Oct 01, 2022 10:48 am ... here is a revised [translation of] Chapter 1 [of M. M. Postnikov's "Critical Study on Chronology of the Ancient World" 1970] with some amendments in the text and also with page numbers, contents and a mobile-friendly formatting:

Chapter 1. Antique literature

§ 1. Tacitus and Poggio Bracciolini
§ 2. Literary hoaxes and fakes
§ 3. Figures of the Rennaissance
§ 4. Review of the origins of the most important compositions of the Antiquity
§ 5. On possibility of antique literature in general and its specific genres in particular
§ 6. Distribution of genres of antique literature overtime
§ 7. The beginning of Roman chronicle
§ 8. Roman calendar

https://mega.nz/file/MHZVFIqD#qpylNRjzZ ... PNQx62C24k
I finally gave this 300+ page "chapter" a quick read-over.

I would quibble that the English translation of the title. "Critical Study on Chronology of the Ancient World" makes it seem like we will be dealing with yet another fanciful recalibration of ancient dating (Bronze age an later).

This chapter, on the other hand, appears to actually be a very interesting analysis of the possible forged origins of many now famous/highly-regarded classical works discovered in the renaissance era.

On the essay itself, there is a lot of "loaded" language which is not a good thing to see in a serious work, but the style (at least in your English translation) is colloquial and confident. I will have to invest some reading time to it.

As you may know, the subject of Tacitus has come up here in the not too distant past. The legendary member "spin" was interested in it as it related to whether these mss had originally spelled "Christus" as "Chrestus." However, I think he supported it authenticity, although the problems with the mss tradition were brought up by some posters.

My experience, entirely as an native English speaker with limited Latin exposure and no formal academic training on the subject, was that there were differences between the narrative in the Histories and the Annals. The passages that mention "christians" or "chrestus" in Tacitus & Suetonius, did not jive very well. It doesn't help that the almost universal opinion of modern critics is that these just HAVE to be references to Jesus Christ or to "Christians" (his followers) of the time, as if there can be no other explanation worth mentioning.

In the past I've suggested interpretations of these passages that do not always assume that they refer to "Christ" or to "Christians" (capital C), but instead to Jewish "messianists," their Jewish or gentile followers in general, and that "chreston" referred to, well, an actual substance "chreston," which was made of ground chicory seeds and was believed to help serious magicians get the elemental spirits to comply with their instructions. Flies to honey. Yes there is classical and archeological support for this. I supposed that political or religious agitators might think that it would also work on crowds as well.

I'll have to look at this again. Usually my amateur studies include tables with columns for Latin and/or Greek and published English translations side by side and granulated to clausal level, as best I can. I like to know what these sources "really" say, not what a translator wanted to make it convey. When I do I will keep the suspicions about sources like Livy & Tacitus in mind.

I still have to look at chapter 2. This one seems to deal with chronological inconsistencies between sources when they deal with Greco-Roman times. Now there I can see a connection to the title.

DCH
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