Matthias Klinghardt
Das älteste Evangelium und die Entstehung der kanonischen Evangelien: Band 2 (German edition), page 539
The Greek word καταβαίνω (katabainó) can mean "coming down" but can also mean „descending“. It has the latter meaning, for example, inBen C. Smith wrote: ↑Mon Apr 04, 2016 5:35 amInterestingly, I took my translation for all of these gospel passages straight from my old synopsis, in which I do translate καταβαίνω as "descend" (my synoptic translations being intentionally literalistic and as consistent as I could make them). I manually changed that translation to post here precisely because I thought it sounded too mystical ...Kunigunde Kreuzerin wrote:The word for „go down“ in John's story is καταβαίνω (katabainó) – descending. Maybe there could be a double meaning. Twice the royal official asks the Lord to „go down“ (4:47.49) and at the first time he gets a rebuke. I would therefore not exclude the idea that John's story is about the power of the absent Jesus (the risen Lord). In John's story the „distance“ of the healing could be interpreted as the earthly absence of the Lord above.
Giusseppe,Giuseppe wrote: ↑Tue Oct 18, 2022 6:54 am Kunigunde, I consider you too much intelligent to use low titles of the kind: "No "Descending" - The Myth About Marcion's Incipit".
Are you aware about the high number of mythicists who have assumed a such incipit for Mcn, without never interpreting it as a banal descent from Nazaret of Galilee?
Please do all the irony you want on the proponents of Mcn's priority but not on the mythicists.
You think Klinghardt takes positions as a concession to apologists? Klinghardt does not seems to be particularly averse to saying things that are likely to upset conservative Christians elsewhere, why would you suppose that's what he's doing here?Giuseppe wrote: ↑Tue Oct 18, 2022 6:30 am "The last possibility is the most likely" as kind concession to apologists, isn't it?
Kunigunde, do you believe really that Klinghardt isn't doing here a timide concession to apologists to exorcise suspicions about a possible "hidden agenda" behind his research on Marcion ?
I am saying that Kunigunde has no right to talk about a "myth of a descending in Marcion's incipit", since it is evident that it is a myth only if both the two following requisites are true as premise:
Because there is clearly a methodological error in action, here.
surely an apologist in my dictionary is any person who shows certainty about the existence of a town called Nazaret before 70 CE. I am sorry for Klinghardt, but he is an apologist or a friend of apologists in the passage quoted by Kunigunde.