Why Jesus was placed under Janneus: because of the Psalm 2

Discussion about the New Testament, apocrypha, gnostics, church fathers, Christian origins, historical Jesus or otherwise, etc.
Post Reply
User avatar
Giuseppe
Posts: 11767
Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2015 5:37 am
Location: Italy

Why Jesus was placed under Janneus: because of the Psalm 2

Post by Giuseppe »

The Jewish text of the Psalm 2 was composed in honour to the crowning of king Janneus in 103 BCE. It has an acrostic that can be translated as: Honour Janneus I and his wife.

Now, "you are my beloved son" is quoted from the Psalm 2, so the rivalry was expected, between the two "beloved sons": Janneus and Jesus.

Accordingly, the legend about a Jesus contemporary of Janneus was born.
User avatar
Giuseppe
Posts: 11767
Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2015 5:37 am
Location: Italy

Re: Why Jesus was placed under Janneus: because of the Psalm 2

Post by Giuseppe »

Note that the Jewish kings were considered adopted by YHWH only when they were crowned.

So the baptism is in nuce a crowning, as already Stahl had realized.
StephenGoranson
Posts: 1105
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2015 2:10 am

Re: Why Jesus was placed under Janneus: because of the Psalm 2

Post by StephenGoranson »

There are acrostic Psalms which are alphabetic, but acrostic Psalm sentences are iffy.
"Is Psalm II an Acrostic Poem?" by Barnabas Lindars, Vetus Testamentum 17/1 (1967) 60-67 gives several reasons to doubt the proposed sentence reading and Hasmonean dating. Why list them all, since Giuseppe seems not open to such?
The sentence-acrostic reading, as far as I know, is only a modern proposal. Did any ancient writings refer to that as such? (I don't know--it is a genuine question.)
Additionally, imo, Jannaeus was the Qumran-view "Wicked Priest." Copies of Ps. 2 exist from Qumran mss.
If Ps. 2 were known to praise Jannaeus, imo, they would not have preserved it.
Last edited by StephenGoranson on Thu Nov 17, 2022 1:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
GakuseiDon
Posts: 1674
Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2013 5:10 pm

Re: Why Jesus was placed under Janneus: because of the Psalm 2

Post by GakuseiDon »

StephenGoranson wrote: Thu Nov 17, 2022 11:09 am There are acrostic psalms which are alphabetic, but acrostic Psalm sentences are iffy.
"Is Psalm II an Acrostic Poem?" by Barnabas Lindars, Vetus Testamentum 17/1 (1967) 60-67 gives several reasons to doubt the proposed sentence reading and Hasmonean dating. Why list them all, since Giuseppe seems not open to such?
I googled the article by Lindars but only found the first page of it. Do you have a link to the full article?

I'd never heard of acrostic psalms before. The advantages for rote learning are obvious so makes sense. Fascinating!
User avatar
Giuseppe
Posts: 11767
Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2015 5:37 am
Location: Italy

Re: Why Jesus was placed under Janneus: because of the Psalm 2

Post by Giuseppe »

StephenGoranson wrote: Thu Nov 17, 2022 11:09 am Why list them all, since Giuseppe seems not open to such?
I have only tried to give an explanation about the (otherwise enigmatic) connection Jesus/Janneus, found in the Talmud and in the Toledoth Jeschu. What strikes me is also the chronological reference given by the Psalm 2:

You are my Son; today I have begotten you

User avatar
GakuseiDon
Posts: 1674
Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2013 5:10 pm

Re: Why Jesus was placed under Janneus: because of the Psalm 2

Post by GakuseiDon »

Giuseppe wrote: Thu Nov 17, 2022 4:38 am The Jewish text of the Psalm 2 was composed in honour to the crowning of king Janneus in 103 BCE. It has an acrostic that can be translated as: Honour Janneus I and his wife.
Sounds fascinating! Do you have a link to the argument for this?
Charles Wilson
Posts: 1985
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2014 8:13 am

Re: Why Jesus was placed under Janneus: because of the Psalm 2

Post by Charles Wilson »

StephenGoranson wrote: Thu Nov 17, 2022 11:09 am Additionally, imo, Jannaeus was the Qumran-view "Wicked Priest." Copies of Ps. 2 exist from Qumran mss.
If Ps. 2 were known to praise Jannaeus, imo, they would not have preserved it.
Eisenman and Wise are considering a Qumran Document, "A Paean for King Jonathan Alexander Jannaeus" - 4Q4481, p. 273:

Eisenman and Wise, Dead Sea Scrolls Uncovered, ISBN-13 978-1-5661-9623-9, p. 276:

"Alexander Jannaeus or other wilderness fighting characters in the Maccabean tradition cannot have been the 'Wicked Priest". This is a contradiction in terms, and shows a complete failure to grasp the import of the materials before us. Only an individual with Phariseeizing tendencies, like his more accommodating son Hyrcaus II...could have been referred to in such a manner. The few lines of this splendid little poem prove this proposition as nothing else can..."

CW
StephenGoranson
Posts: 1105
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2015 2:10 am

Re: Why Jesus was placed under Janneus: because of the Psalm 2

Post by StephenGoranson »

I am among those who consider 4Q448 as *against* Alexander Jannaeus.
In their JBL 112 (1993) 491-99 review by Daniel J. Harrington and John Strugnell page 498:

"Text No. 50. Under a characteristically dubious title: "Paean for King Jonathan....
...could be addressed for or against, since the preposition (l allows both possibilities...
"Rise up, O Holy One, Against King Jonathan...
would follow the normal use of the verb and preposition.....anti-Jannean incipit to a pro-Israel hymn....

[etc.--worth reading in full, imo]

Among others who read "against":
Emmanuelle Main, "For King Jonathan or Against? The Use of the Bible in 4Q448" (1998)

added PS.
from Psalm 2 or from Christians? G. having it both ways?
Charles Wilson
Posts: 1985
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2014 8:13 am

Re: Why Jesus was placed under Janneus: because of the Psalm 2

Post by Charles Wilson »

Thanx for this, SG.

Any guesses as to possible identities of the players here?

CW
StephenGoranson
Posts: 1105
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2015 2:10 am

Re: Why Jesus was placed under Janneus: because of the Psalm 2

Post by StephenGoranson »

Jannaeus
his brother Absalom
Judah the Essene
Post Reply