Why Jesus was placed under Janneus: because of the Psalm 2
Why Jesus was placed under Janneus: because of the Psalm 2
The Jewish text of the Psalm 2 was composed in honour to the crowning of king Janneus in 103 BCE. It has an acrostic that can be translated as: Honour Janneus I and his wife.
Now, "you are my beloved son" is quoted from the Psalm 2, so the rivalry was expected, between the two "beloved sons": Janneus and Jesus.
Accordingly, the legend about a Jesus contemporary of Janneus was born.
Now, "you are my beloved son" is quoted from the Psalm 2, so the rivalry was expected, between the two "beloved sons": Janneus and Jesus.
Accordingly, the legend about a Jesus contemporary of Janneus was born.
Re: Why Jesus was placed under Janneus: because of the Psalm 2
Note that the Jewish kings were considered adopted by YHWH only when they were crowned.
So the baptism is in nuce a crowning, as already Stahl had realized.
So the baptism is in nuce a crowning, as already Stahl had realized.
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Re: Why Jesus was placed under Janneus: because of the Psalm 2
There are acrostic Psalms which are alphabetic, but acrostic Psalm sentences are iffy.
"Is Psalm II an Acrostic Poem?" by Barnabas Lindars, Vetus Testamentum 17/1 (1967) 60-67 gives several reasons to doubt the proposed sentence reading and Hasmonean dating. Why list them all, since Giuseppe seems not open to such?
The sentence-acrostic reading, as far as I know, is only a modern proposal. Did any ancient writings refer to that as such? (I don't know--it is a genuine question.)
Additionally, imo, Jannaeus was the Qumran-view "Wicked Priest." Copies of Ps. 2 exist from Qumran mss.
If Ps. 2 were known to praise Jannaeus, imo, they would not have preserved it.
"Is Psalm II an Acrostic Poem?" by Barnabas Lindars, Vetus Testamentum 17/1 (1967) 60-67 gives several reasons to doubt the proposed sentence reading and Hasmonean dating. Why list them all, since Giuseppe seems not open to such?
The sentence-acrostic reading, as far as I know, is only a modern proposal. Did any ancient writings refer to that as such? (I don't know--it is a genuine question.)
Additionally, imo, Jannaeus was the Qumran-view "Wicked Priest." Copies of Ps. 2 exist from Qumran mss.
If Ps. 2 were known to praise Jannaeus, imo, they would not have preserved it.
Last edited by StephenGoranson on Thu Nov 17, 2022 1:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Why Jesus was placed under Janneus: because of the Psalm 2
I googled the article by Lindars but only found the first page of it. Do you have a link to the full article?StephenGoranson wrote: ↑Thu Nov 17, 2022 11:09 am There are acrostic psalms which are alphabetic, but acrostic Psalm sentences are iffy.
"Is Psalm II an Acrostic Poem?" by Barnabas Lindars, Vetus Testamentum 17/1 (1967) 60-67 gives several reasons to doubt the proposed sentence reading and Hasmonean dating. Why list them all, since Giuseppe seems not open to such?
I'd never heard of acrostic psalms before. The advantages for rote learning are obvious so makes sense. Fascinating!
Re: Why Jesus was placed under Janneus: because of the Psalm 2
I have only tried to give an explanation about the (otherwise enigmatic) connection Jesus/Janneus, found in the Talmud and in the Toledoth Jeschu. What strikes me is also the chronological reference given by the Psalm 2:StephenGoranson wrote: ↑Thu Nov 17, 2022 11:09 am Why list them all, since Giuseppe seems not open to such?
You are my Son; today I have begotten you
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Re: Why Jesus was placed under Janneus: because of the Psalm 2
Eisenman and Wise are considering a Qumran Document, "A Paean for King Jonathan Alexander Jannaeus" - 4Q4481, p. 273:StephenGoranson wrote: ↑Thu Nov 17, 2022 11:09 am Additionally, imo, Jannaeus was the Qumran-view "Wicked Priest." Copies of Ps. 2 exist from Qumran mss.
If Ps. 2 were known to praise Jannaeus, imo, they would not have preserved it.
Eisenman and Wise, Dead Sea Scrolls Uncovered, ISBN-13 978-1-5661-9623-9, p. 276:
"Alexander Jannaeus or other wilderness fighting characters in the Maccabean tradition cannot have been the 'Wicked Priest". This is a contradiction in terms, and shows a complete failure to grasp the import of the materials before us. Only an individual with Phariseeizing tendencies, like his more accommodating son Hyrcaus II...could have been referred to in such a manner. The few lines of this splendid little poem prove this proposition as nothing else can..."
CW
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Re: Why Jesus was placed under Janneus: because of the Psalm 2
I am among those who consider 4Q448 as *against* Alexander Jannaeus.
In their JBL 112 (1993) 491-99 review by Daniel J. Harrington and John Strugnell page 498:
"Text No. 50. Under a characteristically dubious title: "Paean for King Jonathan....
...could be addressed for or against, since the preposition (l allows both possibilities...
"Rise up, O Holy One, Against King Jonathan...
would follow the normal use of the verb and preposition.....anti-Jannean incipit to a pro-Israel hymn....
[etc.--worth reading in full, imo]
Among others who read "against":
Emmanuelle Main, "For King Jonathan or Against? The Use of the Bible in 4Q448" (1998)
added PS.
from Psalm 2 or from Christians? G. having it both ways?
In their JBL 112 (1993) 491-99 review by Daniel J. Harrington and John Strugnell page 498:
"Text No. 50. Under a characteristically dubious title: "Paean for King Jonathan....
...could be addressed for or against, since the preposition (l allows both possibilities...
"Rise up, O Holy One, Against King Jonathan...
would follow the normal use of the verb and preposition.....anti-Jannean incipit to a pro-Israel hymn....
[etc.--worth reading in full, imo]
Among others who read "against":
Emmanuelle Main, "For King Jonathan or Against? The Use of the Bible in 4Q448" (1998)
added PS.
from Psalm 2 or from Christians? G. having it both ways?
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Re: Why Jesus was placed under Janneus: because of the Psalm 2
Thanx for this, SG.
Any guesses as to possible identities of the players here?
CW
Any guesses as to possible identities of the players here?
CW
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Re: Why Jesus was placed under Janneus: because of the Psalm 2
Jannaeus
his brother Absalom
Judah the Essene
his brother Absalom
Judah the Essene