Julian denies the authenticity of both Testimonium Flavianum and Taciteum

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Ken Olson
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Re: Julian denies the authenticity of both Testimonium Flavianum and Taciteum

Post by Ken Olson »

StephenGoranson wrote: Mon Nov 21, 2022 9:31 am I'm not sure this is relevant, but, in case:

"Gegen Julian".
Teil 2, Buch 6-10 und Fragmente /
Cyril, Saint Patriarch of Alexandria; Wolfram Kinzig; Thomas Brüggemann; Gerlinde Huber-Rebenich; Stefan Rebenich; Christoph Riedweg; Adolf Martin Ritter; Markus Vinzent; Hubert Kaufhold

2017
Greek, Ancient [to 1453] Internet Resource Internet Resource Computer File Computer File 1 online resource (2 volumes (ccxxxiii, 947 pages))
ISBN: 9783110391152 3110391155 9783110362589 3110362589
Yes, it looks like the second volume of Cyril's Against Julian, containing books 6-10, was published in 2017 and is available in libraries. I'm away on holiday at the moment and won't be checking it soon.

I think the passage I posted is probably the passage to which Watson and Weill-Raynal refer from book 6 as their claim could plausibly derived from that and it's the only passage in the Neumann/Wright edition of Julian's Against the Christians (which they extracted from Cyril) that could plausibly serve. If there's another passage, we'd have to think Neumann or Cave Wright omitted it in their reconstruction of Julian's text from Cyril.

Best,

Ken
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MrMacSon
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Re: Julian denies the authenticity of both Testimonium Flavianum and Taciteum

Post by MrMacSon »

Giuseppe wrote: Mon Nov 21, 2022 4:00 am
GakuseiDon wrote: Mon Nov 21, 2022 1:57 am What do you think Julian would have made of Josephus's apparent comment in the TF: "He was the Christ"?
if I am correct, Josephus read the TF in Eusebius but he denied his presence in Josephus.
Dave Allen thinks that his denial was a lie. I don't.
I presume you mean, “.. *Julian* read the TF in Eusebius but denied its presence in Josephus” ?.
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Giuseppe
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Re: Julian denies the authenticity of both Testimonium Flavianum and Taciteum

Post by Giuseppe »

MrMacSon wrote: Mon Nov 21, 2022 12:48 pm
Giuseppe wrote: Mon Nov 21, 2022 4:00 am
GakuseiDon wrote: Mon Nov 21, 2022 1:57 am What do you think Julian would have made of Josephus's apparent comment in the TF: "He was the Christ"?
if I am correct, Josephus read the TF in Eusebius but he denied his presence in Josephus.
Dave Allen thinks that his denial was a lie. I don't.
I presume you mean, “.. *Julian* read the TF in Eusebius but denied its presence in Josephus” ?.
yes, right.
Ken Olson
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Re: Julian denies the authenticity of both Testimonium Flavianum and Taciteum

Post by Ken Olson »

Here is the quotation of Julian from Cyril of Alexandria's Against Julian, Book 6 (6.31), as given in the recent GCS edition:

Kyrill Gegen Julian 452.JPG
Kyrill Gegen Julian 452.JPG (2.52 MiB) Viewed 81 times
Kyrill Gegen Julian 453.JPG
Kyrill Gegen Julian 453.JPG (2.38 MiB) Viewed 81 times
Kyrill von Alexandrien I, Gegen Julian, Teil 2: Buch 6-10 Und Fragmente, Herausgeben Wolfram Kinzig und Thomas Brüggerman (Berlin: De Gruyter 2017) 452-453.

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Ken
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Giuseppe
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Re: Julian denies the authenticity of both Testimonium Flavianum and Taciteum

Post by Giuseppe »

the verse 15 appears to be the same passage as quoted by you from the link available online in English.
But in the other passages, I see oudamou. Sure that it is not another form of a denial (that Jesus was known etc) ?
Ken Olson
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Re: Julian denies the authenticity of both Testimonium Flavianum and Taciteum

Post by Ken Olson »

Julian - Against the Christians.jpg
Julian - Against the Christians.jpg (1.75 MiB) Viewed 57 times
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