Not in the same terms as we discuss it here.Giuseppe wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 1:48 amI disagree strongly here. Saying that Jesus was unknown, a mr. Nobody, means to be involved at least partially in a "did Jesus exist" debate.GakuseiDon wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 12:44 am Not Arnoldo, but Julian was a 'historicist'. It's important to note because we shouldn't try to read Julian's writings as though he was involved in the "did Jesus exist" debate. He seems to have thought Jesus existed but that many of the stories in the Gospels were made up.
Julian's point indeed seems to be that Jesus was a "Mr Nobody". All he did at best was heal the sick and exorcise those possessed by demons, hardly "mighty achievements" in his eyes. To quote Julian from Ken's post:
"... during his [Jesus'] lifetime he accomplished nothing worth hearing of, unless anyone thinks that to heal crooked and blind men and to exorcise those who were possessed by evil demons in the villages of Bethsaida and Bethany can be classed as a mighty achievement."
That seems to be the context: "no mighty achievements; prove me wrong by showing me writers contemporary to Tiberius and Claudius that mentioned those mighty achievements."
Even assuming Julian had read the TF: are there "mighty achievements" in the TF that might have satisfied Julian? Julian accuses Jesus and Paul of being "content if they could delude maidservants and slaves, and through them the women, and men like Cornelius and Sergius." The TF lists "wonderful works" which arguably Julian might have taken to refer to healing crooked and blind men and exorcising possessed men, thus not impressive enough for Julian.
Magical healings might sound impressive to us today, but in ancient times not so much. When Jesus did some healing while the Pharisees watched, they didn't go "Holy Crap, look at that!" They said "Hey, you can't do that on the Sabbath!"
I'd argue that even if Julian knew about the TF in Josephus, it wouldn't have been important to him. It didn't provide the "mighy achievements" he was looking for. Then again, I'm a contrarian S.O.B.