Giuseppe wrote: ↑Sat Nov 26, 2022 10:31 am
Paul the Uncertain wrote: ↑Sat Nov 26, 2022 8:46 am this is the first
mention of Jesus's family, never mind their first actual appearance.
in Marcion the family doesn't appear, Jesus is only informed about the presence of the family outside, but the family is not
really there. In Mark 3:21 the family is said to be
explicitly there:
When his family heard about this, they went to take charge of him, for they said, “He is out of his mind.
Mark introduced it to transform what was in Marcion a
lie (=the presence of a family being "outside") in a reality.
Yes, what's in your box shows one of the popular
English language "translations" of verse 3:21. The first mention in the Greek language of Jesus's family comes 10 verses later when indeed the narrator states that Jesus's mother and some sibs are outside the crowded house where Jesus is inside.
Back at your verse 3:21, the Greek text refers to unspecified people close to Jesus. The KJV translates that into English as "his friends." Other possibilities are the just-before appointed Twelve or (perhaps obscured by the much later versification) those who just-after accuse Jesus of being possessed by the prince of demons while being inside the packed house with him. The argument for the phrase referring to his family depends on 3:31 ff, that family members show up outside the house. All these incompatible possibilities are admissible interpretations of "closeness" in one or another sense, and "closeness" is all that the Greek of verse 3:21 asserts.
Similarly vague are the sense of what comes out as "to take charge" and "out of his mind," but that's not our immediate problem, except that the whole "translation" is IMO interesting as a counterexample to the "criterion of embarrassment." That is, some Christians, the translators who produced what's in your box, manage to impugn Jesus's mental health on the authority of those who knew him best, with no strong support for any such thing in the text. Of course, from a Jungian perspective, that sort of dreaded confession against interest is just as routine and expected as the "satanic verses" controversy in Islam, and for the same psychological reasons.
Anyway, we don't reach the merits of your rhetorical leap from "Marcion and Mark disagree about Jesus's family" to "Mark came after Marcion" until and unless we are clear what Mark said in the first place about Jesus's family in Greek. Under the circumstances, perhaps it is best to focus on 3:31-32, especially if the disagreement turns solely on the existence of the family in the two intersecting story universes.