Did E.P.Sanders write about mythicism?

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Giuseppe
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Did E.P.Sanders write about mythicism?

Post by Giuseppe »

I know that Sanders is adored quasi deo by Christian historicists.

Has he released something about mythicism? My impression is that he lived in an universe where not only mythicism is false, but where the same mythicists never existed.
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Ken Olson
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Re: Did E.P.Sanders write about mythicism?

Post by Ken Olson »

Giuseppe wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 4:01 am I know that Sanders is adored quasi deo by Christian historicists.

Has he released something about mythicism? My impression is that he lived in an universe where not only mythicism is false, but where the same mythicists never existed.
No, not that I know of.

Have you written anything on covenantal nomism as a model for understanding late second temple Judiasm (and getting away from the false dichotomy between the law and faith/faithfulness) or Paul's concept of participation in Christ through baptism as a way of joining the people of God/becoming an heir to the promises given to Abraham and the patriarchs? Do those issues exist in the universe you live in?

Best,

Ken
Giuseppe
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Re: Did E.P.Sanders write about mythicism?

Post by Giuseppe »

Ken Olson wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 6:20 amDo those issues exist in the universe you live in?
they exist under the category: "boring arguments that have to be advanced again and again to insist that Paul was a 100% Jew without no dualistic influence at all deriving from an anti-demiurgist tenor".

But I am not interested to the questions about how much Paul is Jew (later de-ethnicized by Marcion) or a gentile (later judaized also by scholars à la Sanders), what is sufficient for me is that the epistles precede the first gospel.
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Irish1975
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Re: Did E.P.Sanders write about mythicism?

Post by Irish1975 »

Sanders belonged to a generation of scholars who were fully committed to New Testament Studies as a canon-based discipline, while at the same time they convinced themselves and all their students that what they were really doing was "History." The 1970s and 1980s were a more credulous era, when people either didn't know the chasms and contradictions that bedevil a simplistic equation of the scriptural narrative with the historical record, or they were happy to pretend that they didn't know it. Thus, Raymond Brown could publish his monumental two-volume study of the passion narratives as a work of history, and completely ignore the Marcionite version.

People still want to pull off this trick, but there are stiffer winds today. It is harder to have one's cake and eat it too. One is either a historian, who gives little or no deference to the canonical narrative (e.g. Jason BeDuhn, M. David Litwa, Robyn Faith Walsh, Vinzent, etc); or one is committed to the canonical narrative, and happy to massage extra-canonical evidence to suit one's purposes (Ehrman, Hurtado, and countless evangelicals taking over the discipline). The former group has self-respect, while latter have the ear of the New York Times, Washington Post, Disney-owned National Geographic, and the big New York publishers.

E.P. Sanders wrote some fine books. He was more honest about his principles than a lot of scholars, and far more knowledgable of texts.
Ken Olson wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 6:20 am Have you written anything on covenantal nomism as a model for understanding late second temple Judiasm (and getting away from the false dichotomy between the law and faith/faithfulness) or Paul's concept of participation in Christ through baptism as a way of joining the people of God/becoming an heir to the promises given to Abraham and the patriarchs? Do those issues exist in the universe you live in?
This just sounds like the lionization of Sanders by theologian-historians like James Dunn and NT Wright. Sanders would probably be the first to admit that he didn't say anything new or all that interesting about "participation in Christ," as compared with Schweitzer's 1931 book, for example. Probably his most important work, and what he was most proud of, was the repair of the reputation of the Pharisees (for Christian readers of the Gospels, that is).
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