The Opening of the Marcionite Text in Plain Sight?

[Secret Alias]

Cyril of Jerusalem 3:6

Πάντες γὰρ οἱ προφῆται καὶ ὁ νόμος ἕως Ἰωάννου·τῶν δὲ εὐαγγελικῶν πραγμάτων ἀπαρχή. Ἀρχὴ γὰρ τοῦ εὐαγγελίου Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ, [φησι] καὶ τὰ ἑξῆς· Ἐγένετο Ἰωάννης ἐν τῇ ἐρήμῳ βαπτίζων

The end he was of the Prophets: for all the Prophets and the law were until John: but of the Gospel history he was the first-fruit. For it says, The beginning of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, John came baptising in the wilderness.

Clement cites the Gospel of Luke as beginning:

ὅτι δὲ τοῦτ' ἀληθές ἐστιν, ἐν τῷ εὐαγγελίῳ τῷ κατὰ Λουκᾶν γέγραπται οὕτως· ἔτει δὲ πεντεκαιδεκάτῳ ἐπὶ Τιβερίου Καίσαρος ἐγένετο ῥῆμα κυρίου ἐπὶ Ἰωάννην τὸν Ζαχαρίου υἱόν. καὶ πάλιν ἐν τῷ αὐτῷ· ἦν Ἰησοῦς ἐρχόμενος ἐπὶ τὸ βάπτισμα ὡς ἐτῶν λʹ. καὶ ὅτι ἐνιαυτὸν μόνον ἔδει αὐτὸν κηρῦξαι, καὶ τοῦτο γέγραπται οὕτως· ἐνιαυτὸν δεκτὸν κυρίου κηρῦξαι ἀπέστειλέν με. τοῦτο καὶ ὁ προφήτης εἶπεν καὶ τὸ εὐαγγέλιον

And to prove that this is true, it is written in the Gospel by Luke as follows: "And in the fifteenth year, in the reign of Tiberius Caesar, the word of the Lord came to John, the son of Zacharias." And again in the same book: "And Jesus was coming to His baptism, being about thirty years old," and so on. And that it was necessary for Him to preach only a year, this also is written: "He hath sent Me to proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord." This both the prophet spake, and the Gospel.

Seems like both gospels just began with the "sudden" appearance of John. "εὐαγγελικῶν πραγμάτων" = gospel things? gospel matters?

[Secret Alias]

Cyril clearly understands Marcion to have corrupted a gospel harmony:

καὶ Μαρκίων, τὸ τῆς ἀθεότητος στόμα. Ὁ γὰρ θεοὺς διαφόρους ἀναγορεύσας, ἄλλον τὸν ἀγαθὸν καὶ ἄλλον τὸν δίκαιον, ἀντιφθέγγεται τῷ Υἱῷ τῷ λέγοντι, Πάτερ δίκαιε. Καὶ [ὁ λέγων] πάλιν ἄλλον τὸν πατέρα, καὶ ἄλλον τὸν ποιητὴν τοῦ κόσμου, ἐναντιοῦται τῷ Υἱῷ, τῷ λέγοντι· Εἰ δὲ τὸν χόρτον τοῦ ἀγροῦ σήμερον ὄντα καὶ αὔριον εἰς κλίβανον [πυρὸς] βαλλόμενον, ὁ Θεὸς οὕτως ἀμφιέννυσι· καὶ, Ὄστις τὸν ἥλιον αὐτοῦ ἀνατέλλει ἐπὶ ἀγαθούς τε καὶ πονηροὺς, καὶ βρέχει ἐπὶ δικαίους καὶ ἀδίκους. Οὕτως πάλιν ἄλλης κακίας εὑρετὴς, ὁ Μαρκίων δεύτερος. Ὑπὸ γὰρ τῶν κειμένων ἀπὸ τῆς παλαιᾶς ἐν τῇ καινῇ διαθήκῃ μαρτυριῶν ἐλεγχόμενος, πρῶτος ἐτόλμησεν ἐκκόψαι τὰς μαρτυρίας, καὶ ἀμάρτυρον ἀφεῖναι τὸν καταγγελλόμενον λόγον τῆς πίστεως, καταλείψας τὸν Θεόν· καὶ ὡς κηρύκων μὴ ὄντων, σαθρὰν ἠθέλησε ποιήσασθαι τῆς Ἐκκλησίας τὴν πίστιν

and Marcion , that mouthpiece of ungodliness. For he who proclaimed different gods, one the Good, the other the Just, contradicts (ἀντιφθέγγομαι = return a sound, echo, repeat) the Son when He says, O righteous Father. John 17:25 And he who says again that the Father is one, and the maker of the world another, opposes (ἐναντιοῦται) the Son when He says, If then God so clothes the grass of the field which today is, and tomorrow is cast into the furnace of fire Luke 12:28; and, Who makes His sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. Matthew 5:45 Here again is a second inventor of more mischief, this Marcion. For being confuted by the testimonies from the Old Testament which are quoted in the New, he was the first who dared to cut those testimonies out , and leave the preaching of the word of faith without witness, thus effacing the true God: and sought to undermine the Church's faith, as if there were no heralds of it.

Marcionites invented the Muslim line of attack against the orthodox:

We preach not three Gods ; let the Marcionites be silenced; but with the Holy Ghost through One Son, we preach One God.

and again:

Let the Marcionists also be abhorred, who tear away from the New Testament the sayings of the Old. For Marcion first, that most impious of men, who first asserted three Gods , knowing that in the New Testament are contained testimonies of the Prophets concerning Christ, cut out the testimonies taken from the Old Testament, that the King might be left without witness. Abhor those above-mentioned Gnostics, men of knowledge by name, but fraught with ignorance; who have dared to say such things of the Holy Ghost as I dare not repeat.

[rgprice]

It is interesting that they talk about Marcion proclaiming two or three gods, and the Catholics devise the trinity which combines essentially multiple gods into one.

[Secret Alias]

The Muslims say Christians believe in three gods.

Al-Baizawi (A.H. 685), in his commentary on Surah iv. 169, says: "Say not there are Three," that is, "Do not say there are three Gods," namely Allah and al-Masih and Maryam; or "Do not say God is Three," meaning that there are Three Aqanim or Essences - Ab (Father), Ibn (Son), and Ruhu'l-Quds (Holy Spirit) and interpreting it thus: Ab the Zat or Essence; Ibn, the 'Ilm or Knowledge; and Ruhu 'l-Qud, the Hayat or Life of God.

[mlinssen]

It is interesting that they talk about Marcion proclaiming two or three gods, and the Catholics devise the trinity which combines essentially multiple gods into one.

[λέγ]ει [ις ὅπ]ου ἐὰν ὦσιν [τρ]ε[ῖς εἰσὶν] θεοί καὶ [ὅπ]ο[υ] ε[ἷς] ἐστιν μόνος [λέ]γ ̤ ω ἐγώ εἰμι μετ’ αὐ τ[οῦ] ἔγει[ρ]ον τὸν λίθο(ν) κἀκεῖ [ε]ὑρήσεις με σχίσον τὸ ξύλον κἀγὼ ἐκεῖ εἰμι

[Say]s [IS wh]ere ever might-be [t]hr[ee they-are] gods and [wh]er[e] o[ne] is single [I-s]ay I am with h-i[m] raise-[ u]p the stone and-there you-will-[f]ind me split the wood and-I there I-am

https://archive.org/details/cu319240292 ... 5/mode/1up - transcription by Grenfell & Hunt

https://digital.bodleian.ox.ac.uk/objec ... b69857a36/#

I already asked for the page to be flipped, yeah

Most interestingly, the Coptic says:

IS said: the place there are three gods, therein some gods are;
the place there are two Or one; myself, I, am existing with him.

[mlinssen]

Brent Nongbri has some difficulties with attribution, it would seem

https://brentnongbri.com/2023/01/25/mor ... an-online/

I commented to his https://brentnongbri.com/2021/03/02/onl ... /#comments but can't find it anymore, the odd thing is that it says 5 comments but I can only find 3. I think this is the post in question, but I alerted Nongbri to the brilliant new image and also alerted the Bodleian to the fact that it was flipped. The Tolkien got back to me on January 12th and indeed it has been flipped back since

There naturally is the coincidence of coincidences, but it's not like Nongbri's blog is flooded by hundreds or even dozens of comments a day - I've counted 24 since July 2022, less than one a week.
It's very coincidental, to say the least, that I post something to a blog and within a month a new blog post contains the exact same!
Ah well, Jesus worked miracles as well, they say

ETA: I added a comment to his latest post, but it just goes up in smoke. No message, no nothing. Can't tell whether it's in moderation, spam, rejected or what not

Amazing

[rgprice]

Clément's citation of Luke 3:1 is interesting. "And in the fifteenth year, in the reign of Tiberius Caesar, the word of the Lord came to John, the son of Zacharias."

This is far more compact than canonical 3:1, and far more reasonable. Are there any commentaries on this? Do scholars jut assume that Clement was paraphrasing? I mean what Clement says here looks like a typical opening of a Jewish scripture. The current 3:1 is greatly overfilled with details.

[mlinssen]

Clément's citation of Luke 3:1 is interesting. "And in the fifteenth year, in the reign of Tiberius Caesar, the word of the Lord came to John, the son of Zacharias."

This is far more compact then canonical 3:1, and far more reasonable. Are there any commentaries on this? Do scholars jut assume that Clement was paraphrasing? I mean what Clement says here looks like a typical opening of a Jewish scripture. The current 3:1 is greatly overfilled with details.

Let me help you out there

https://archive.org/details/copticversi ... 5/mode/1up

And if you're up to some much tougher wrestling, try

https://data.copticscriptorium.org/text ... 3/analytic

3.1 Now in (the) fifteenth year of (the) government of Tiberius (the) king, Pontius Pilate being governor of Judea, and Herod being tetrarch of Galilee, and Philip his brother being tetrarch of Hidurea and the Tetragónités-country, and Lisanios being tetrarch of Abiliné, 2 іп the time of Anna and Kaiapha the chief priests, came the (lit. a) word of God upon John (the) son of Zacharias in (the) desert. 3 And he came to all the region round about the Jordan preaching baptism of repentance for (the) forgiveness of sin;

Acceptable year of the Lawd?

https://archive.org/details/copticversi ... 0/mode/1up

4:17 And having opened the book, he found the place in which it was (imperf) written:
18 The (lit. a) Spirit of the Lord is upon me; therefore he anointed me, he sent me to preach good tidings to the poor, to proclaim to the captives release, and sight to the blind; to send to them who are bound, for (lit. in) release, 19 to proclaim the (lit. an) acceptable year of the Lord.’ And having rolled the book, he gave it to the officer, he sat, and all who were in the synagogue—their eyes were looking upon him. 20 And he began to say to them: ‘This scripture was fulfilled today in your ears.’

That is a variant in Luke, a false LXX translation of the original Isaiah 61:2 - as usual

To proclaim a year of the LORD’s favor
And a day of vindication by our God;
To comfort all who mourn

[mlinssen]

LOL. I never had noticed this piece of Luke really, and thought that the bit about the word of John was fairly unique. Well, learned something new!

Interesting though that it doesn't say LOGOS, but just the boring word for word - both in Greek and Coptic