Charles, what horrid typos I make!Charles Wilson wrote: ↑Fri Jan 13, 2023 8:01 pmmlinssen --mlinssen wrote: ↑Wed Jan 11, 2023 2:14 pm Read him in Greek and he is just astonishingly deep: let's take Berean literal as usual
ἦν (Was) δὲ (now) ὁ (the) χιτὼν (tunic) ἄραφος (seamless), ἐκ (from) τῶν (the) ἄνωθεν (top) ὑφαντὸς (woven) δι’ (throughout) ὅλου (all).
ἄραφος doesn't exist as a word, it may come from the verb ῥάπτω: un-patched, and naturally that refers to logion 47 where a new garment receives an old patch - which Marcion turned around in order to make explicit that good new religion most definitely want fit for Judaics
Today was one of those days where things simply fall from the sky in front of me and I have to figure things out as best I can.
As usual, I'm not arguing against you - How could I? - but there is a different Path that opens up what the Beauty of Language illuminates, a pointer to someone else's mind.
There *IS* a word for "Seamless" that is used to describe a "Seamless Garment":
Suetonius, 12 Caesars, "Galba":
Not long after this he [Galba] learned that Otho held possession of the Camp, and when several advised him to proceed thither as soon as possible — for they said that he could win the day by his presence and prestige — he decided to do no more than hold his present position and strengthen it by getting together a guard of the legionaries, who were encamped in many different quarters of the city. He did however put on a linen cuirass, though he openly declared that it would afford little protection against so many swords.."
***
https://www.etymonline.com/word/cuirass:
"cuirass (n.)
"armor for the chest and back," mid-15c., curase, curasse, from Old French cuirace (15c.), from Late Latin coriacea vestis "garment of leather," from Latin corium "leather, hide" (see corium). Cognate with Italian corazza, Spanish coraza, Portuguese couraça. Related: Cuirassier "mounted soldier wearing a cuirass," 1620s; "the proper name of a certain type of heavy cavalry in European armies" [OED].
Entries linking to cuirass
corium (n.)
"innermost layer of the skin," 1836, from Latin corium "skin, hide, leather," related to cortex "bark," scortum "skin, hide," from PIE root *sker- (1) "to cut" (compare Sanskrit krtih "hide;" Old Church Slavonic scora "skin," Russian skora "hide," kora "bark;" Welsh corwg "boat made with leather skins," all from the same root).
*sker- (1)
also *ker-, Proto-Indo-European root meaning "to cut."
"It forms all or part of: bias; carnage; carnal; carnation; carnival; carnivorous; carrion; cenacle; charcuterie; charnel; corium; cortex; crone; cuiOld English sceran, scieran "to cleave, hew, cut with a sharp instrument;" Old Irish scaraim "I separate;" Welsh ysgar "to separate," ysgyr "fragment." "
***τῶν is plural genitive, of-the(PL)
ἄνωθεν ἄνω
I.adv. of place from above, from on high, Hdt., Trag., etc.; ὕδατος ἄνωθεν γενομένου, i. e. rain, Thuc.: from the upper country, from inland, id=Thuc.
2.= ἄνω, above, on high, Trag.; οἱ ἄν. the living, opp. to οἱ κάτω, Aesch.:—c. gen., Hdt.
II.of Time, from the beginning, Plat., Dem.:— by descent, Theocr.; τὰ ἄν. first principles, Plat.
2.over again, anew, NTest
And again we see the excruciating banality of the NT blending everything into a bland
ὅλος doesn't mean 'all', it means 'whole'
ὑφαίνω
I. [select] to weave, ἱστὸν ὑφαίνειν to weave a web, Hom.; ἱμάτιον Plat., etc.:—absol. to weave, ply the loom, Hdt.:—Mid., ἱμάτιον ὑφαίνεσθαι to weave oneself a cloak, Plat.
II. [select] to contrive, plan, invent, Lat. texere, δόλον ὑφαίνειν Il.; μῆτιν ὑφ. Od.
III. [select] generally, to create, construct, Pind
Gently woven, contrived, created, and the connotation of a round web or wheel is beautiful
ἦν (Was) δὲ (however) ὁ (the) χιτὼν (tunic) ἄραφος (unpatched), ἐκ (from) τῶν (those-of-the) ἄνωθεν (above) ὑφαντὸς (woven) δι’ (through) ὅλου (whole)
An unpatched χιτὼν, the garment worn next the skin, through and through whole, woven by those above: pristine, perfect, untainted, is this skin, this shell, and naturally that reflects on IS, who is (one with) the father
That is John, and he is beautiful, and he really didn't deserve to get smeared by being included in the NT, redacted into the last position
John tells the story that the Synoptics do not. Galba is beheaded after being run through by soldiers and ...his head bandages are separated and in a corner in the Tomb. Otho falls on his sword and gets the wound at his side - Blood and water pour out , presumably at the Po River.
Vitellius finds his homosexual lover Asiaticus at a bazaar selling Posca and it's hard to imagine a more graphic crossover than putting vinegar on a sponge on a hyssop stick and placing the sponge at the mouth of that one on the cross
So I have to find a Unification of the woven Seamless Garment that had Echoes of the Gospel of Thomas, which, you assert, came first.
"So much to learn in so little time..."
Thank you again, mlinssen.
CW
Thank you for indulging me the way you do
Galba - thank you, never heard of him before, but the similarities can't be coincidental. Is John telling Galba's story, or the other way around? And are the passages genuine or perhaps interpolations?
But the contentual and contextual agreement, if I may, is undeniable