Thomas' One from one thousand, two from ten thousand: 1,000 and 10 1,000

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mlinssen
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Thomas' One from one thousand, two from ten thousand: 1,000 and 10 1,000

Post by mlinssen »

It's not that I lie awake at night pondering about the logia I haven't been able to interpret, but every now and then I pick one

23. IS said: I will choose you, one from thousand and two from ten thousand, and they will stand to their foot in case they been made one single.

It is not possible to make anything else from ϯ ⲛⲁ ⲥⲉ[ⲧ]ⲡ ⲧⲏⲛⲉ, 'I will choose you(PL)'. Stephen Emmel confirmed the lacuna and that is that. ⲥⲉⲧⲡ only exists as nominal form of ⲥⲱⲧⲡ and that's that too.
And while I fiercely object to IS doing any choosing whatsoever because he doesn't do anything in all of Thomas and is merely a concept, 'awareness' or 'attention' or something like it, I can only grudgingly accept what the text says - which I do

And Wikipedia has the pointers to what really forms the puzzle: 1 out of 1,000 and 2 out of 10,000

1,000 equates to "water lily", Gardiner M12, which is a very dull and mundane description of what it really is: the Egyptian white lotus.
10,000 equates to a bent finger, Gardiner D50

The Egyptian white lotus is a symbol of rebirth and creation.
The bent finger isn't much of anything although two bent fingers indicate 'accurate', 'precise' - yet 10,000 also is 10 1,000 and then we are pointed to the Egyptian numeral for 10, Gardiner V20, the hobble.
A hobble ties two, and is meant to limit movement - and we are reminded of logion 50 ...if they should question you: what? is the sign of your father which in you, say it to them: a movement it is, there is not a Repose

One symbolises (re)birth, creation, two symbolises a merely hobbled (re)birth, creation: dualised as we are, we still are the father, the originally created 'we' that we were at birth, and we're merely (very!) limited in movement

And with that. 'standing to one's feet' gets meaning: if you stand to your feet you have become unfettered, the hobble has been removed - and you freely and widely stand to your feet:

16. IS said: Perhaps they think, the humans: I have come to cast a Peace upon the World, and they know not: I have come to cast some divisions upon the earth; a fire, a sword, a War. There are five Indeed that will come to be in a house; there are three that will come to be upon two, and two upon three: the father upon the child and the child upon the father, and they will stand to their feet in case they been made Single-One.

Obviously, when the children are one with the father again, Single-one, the hobble has long gone already

18. The Disciples said to IS: say it to us; our end, she will come to be in what manner? IS said did you uncover Indeed outward the Beginning in order that you will seek after the end: in the place which the Beginning therein, the end will come to be therein. A Fortunate, he who will stand to foot in the Beginning, and he will know the end and he will not taste death.

Naturally, there is no hobble in the beginning

28. IS said: I stood to my feet in the middle of the World and I revealed outward to them in Flesh. I fell to them all being drunk; I did not fall to anyone in them who was thirsting, and my Soul gave pain upon the children of the humans; blind persons they are in their heart/mind, and they see not: they have come to the World they empty, they seek also to cause them come forth in the World they empty. Anyway now they are being drunk; Whenever if they should cast off their wine Then they will make be Conceive afterwards.

Evidently, IS stands to his feet

50. IS said: if they should say it to you, whence have you come to be? Say it to them: have we come from the light, the place the light has come to be therein outward by the hand of himself; he stood to his feet and he revealed from their Image. If they should say it to you: yourselves is... then say it: we his children and we the chosen of the father who is living; if they should question you: what? is the sign of your father which in you, say it to them: a movement it is, there is not a Repose.

The living father undoubtedly stands to his feet

75. said IS Surely many standing-on-foot they at-door-of the door Rather the(PL) Single-One they-who will go-inward to the place of marriage

And Thomas perfectly sketches the development: you can have untied the hobble, making unlimited movement possible - but that doesn't mean you have unmade the two and become a Single-one again

99. said the(PL) Disciple to he : your(PL.SG) brothers with your(F.SG) mother they standing-on-foot they on the part of-outside said he to they : they-who of these place who/which make-be [dop] the desire of my father these-ones are my(PL) brothers with my(F) mother themselves is who/which will go-inward to the(F) reign-of(F) king of my father

Do note that it is the dumb and ignorant disciples who say that his brothers and mother are standing outside, obviously missing the explicit reference in logion 64 that outside is where the paths are: everything outside is bad in Thomas, and Tom Dykstra pointed this out earlier in Mark. But at least they seem to have picked up on the standing to one's foot - and the development continues in Thomas: you can stand to your feet at the door, but you *really* have to do the desire of the father.
Rene Salm on Dykstra in this regard

foot ⲣⲁⲧ⸗ Noun masculine 16, 18, 23, 28, 50
stand ⲱϩⲉ Verb 16, 18, 23, 28, 50
standing-on-foot ⲱϩⲉ+ ⲉⲣⲁⲧ⸗ Verb 75, 99

And I have to improve somewhat on the Concordance, and the translation, as stand and foot are only used in conjunction with each other; I have turned the Stative into a composite verb but failed to do so for the infinitive.
And evidently, foot doesn't equate to feet:

feet ⲟⲩⲉⲣⲏⲧⲉ Noun feminine 22, 37

And that reveals the tremendous level of detail in Thomas

By the way, I am at logion 62 at the moment, and cracked the puzzles of 60 and 61 - and had procrastinated doing work on them because they formed such a seemingly insurmountable barrier. Yet as with this logion, the solution was straightforward and simple, and followed the text to the letter
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All in the NT (and Thomas): outside

Post by mlinssen »

This is part of the series "all of the NT": search.php?keywords=All+of+the+nt&terms ... mit=Search

A list of all verses with outside in all of the NT.
Why? to see where Thomasine parallels can be found; a verse will have a bold red number in front of it that points to the Thomas logion where applicable; relevant Thomas logia follow below.
A verse will have a bold green number in front of it when it points to a Thomas logion that does not contain the word 'outside'

Thomasine logia:

ⲛⲃⲟⲗ of-outside Adjective 22, 40, 64, 89, 99

14. IS said to them: if you should Fast, you will beget to you a sin; and if you should pray, they will Condemn you; and if you should give Alms, you will make be a Bad one of your Spirits. And if you should go inward to a certain earth and you walk in the Lands, if they should Accept you; he who they will place him at you: eat him. They who are sick of their heart/mind, Heal them. He who will go Indeed inward in your mouth he will defile you not, Rather he who is coming from your mouth; he is he who will defile you.

Bear with me please, it will become clear in a moment

40. IS said a vine of grape she was planted within the part of outside of the father and not made strong; she will be plucked out at her root and destroyed.

64. said IS : a(n) human was/ere has/ve he some(PL) stranger and after-that he prepare [dop] the Dinner did he send [dop] his slave So-that he will summon [dop] the(PL) strangers did he go to the first said he to he : my slaveowner summon [dop] you(SG) said he : has/ve I some(PL) copper to some(PL) Traveller they be-coming toward I to evening I will go and lay-a-bid to they I make-be Beg-off [dop] the Dinner did he go toward other one said he to he : did my slaveowner summon [dop] you(SG) said he to he : did I buy a(n) house and they make-be Ask [dop] I of a(n) Day I will be-at-leisure not did he come toward other one said he to he : my slaveowner summon [dop] you(SG) said he to he : my friend will make-be marriage and myself who/which will make-be Dinner I will be-able come not I make-be Beg-off [dop] the Dinner did he go toward other one said he to he : my slaveowner summon [dop] you(SG) said he to he : did I buy [dop] a(n) Village I be-going to take [dop] tax I will be-able come not I make-be Beg-off did he come viz. the slave did he say it to his slaveowner : those have you summon they to the Dinner did they Beg-off said the slaveowner to his slave : go to the part of-outside to the(PL) paths they-who you(SG) will fall to they bring they in-order-that they will make-be Dine the(PL) man-who buy with the(PL) traders they will go-inward not to the(PL) Place of my father

89. said IS : because-of who/at? you(PL) wash~ [dop] the part of-outside of the Cup you(PL) make-be Conceive not : he-who have create [dop] the part of-inside he also he-who have he create [dop] the part of-outside

99. said the(PL) Disciple to he : your(PL.SG) brothers with your(F.SG) mother they standing-on-foot they on the part of-outside said he to they : they-who of these place who/which make-be [dop] the desire of my father these-ones are my(PL) brothers with my(F) mother themselves is who/which will go-inward to the(F) reign-of(F) king of my father

Logion 64, where Thomas explicitly points to the outside for The Proverbial Paths, plural, isn't present in the NT.
Everything in Thomas that is outside is bad, and logion 3 - correctly translated - reads 'Rather, the reign of king is of your inside and she is of your eye'

Here is a complete list from Berean Literal (with footnote references left intact), of every verse with the word: outside

BOOK OF Matthew
Chapter 9 Jesus Heals a Paralytic
25 And when the crowd had been put outside, having entered, He took hold of her hand, and the girl arose.
Chapter 12 The Lord of the Sabbath
99 46 Now while He was speaking to the crowds, behold, His mother and brothers were standing outside, seeking to speak to Him.c
99 47 Then someone said to Him, “Behold, Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside, seeking to speak to You.”
Chapter 23 Woes to Scribes and Pharisees
89 25 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you cleanse the outside of the cup and of the dish, but inside they are full of greed and intemperance.
89 26 Blind Pharisee! First cleanse the inside of the cup and of the dish, that their outside might become clean also.
Chapter 26 The Plot to Kill Jesus
69 And Peter was sitting outside in the court, and one servant girl came to him, saying, “You also were with Jesus the Galilean.”

BOOK OF Mark
Chapter 3 Jesus Heals on the Sabbath
99 31 And His mother and His brothers arrive, and standing outside, sent to Him, calling Him.
99 32 And a crowd was sitting around Him, and they said to Him, “Behold, Your mother and Your brothersa outside are seeking You.”
Chapter 4 The Parable of the Sower
62 11 And He was saying to them, “To you has been given the mystery of the kingdom of God, but to those who are outside, everything is done in parables,
Chapter 5 The Demons and the Pigs
40 And they were laughing at Him. And He, having put all outside, takes with Him the father and the mother of the child, and those with Him, and enters in where the child was.
Chapter 7 Tradition and Worship
14 15 There is nothing from outside the man entering into him which is able to defile him; but the things proceeding out of the man are the things defiling the man.”g
14 18 And He says to them, “Thus are you also without understanding? Do you not understand that everything entering into the man from outside is not able to defile him,
Chapter 11 The Triumphal Entry
4 And they departed and found the colt having been tied at the door outside, by the street. And they untied it,
Chapter 12 The Parable of the Wicked Tenants
65 8 And having taken him, they killed him, and cast him forth outside the vineyard.

BOOK OF Luke
Chapter 1 Dedication to Theophilus
10 And the whole multitude of the people were praying outside at the hour of the incense.
Chapter 8 Women Minister to Jesus
99 20 And it was told Him, “Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside, wishing to see You.”
Chapter 11 The Lord's Prayer
89 39 And the Lord said to him, “Now you Pharisees, you cleanse the outside of the cup and of the dish, but your inside is full of plundering and wickedness.
89 40 Fools! Did not the One having made the outside make the inside also?
Chapter 13 A Call to Repentance
21... 25 From the time the master of the house shall have risen up and shall have shut the door, then you shall begin to stand outside and to knock at the door, saying, ‘Lord, open to us.’ And he answering, will say to you, ‘I do not know from where you are.’
33 But it behooves Me to proceed today and tomorrow and the following day. For it is not possible for a prophet to perish outside of Jerusalem.
Chapter 20 Jesus' Authority Challenged
65 15 And having cast him forth outside the vineyard, they killed him. What therefore will the master of the vineyard do to them?
Chapter 22 The Plot to Kill Jesus
62 And having gone forth outside, he wept bitterly. The Soldiers Mock Jesus

BOOK OF John
Chapter 18 The Betrayal of Jesus
16 But Peter stood at the door outside. Therefore the other disciple, who was known to the high priest, went out and spoke to the doorkeeper and brought in Peter.
Chapter 19 The Soldiers Mock Jesus
4 And Pilate went forth outside again and says to them, “Behold, I bring Him out to you so that you may know that I find no guilt in Him.”
5 Therefore Jesus went forth outside, wearing the thorny crown and the purple robe. And he says to them, “Behold the man!”
Chapter 20 The Resurrection
11 But Mary stood outside at the tomb weeping. Then as she was weeping, she stooped down into the tomb,

BOOK OF Acts
Chapter 4 Peter and John Before the Council
15 But having commanded them to go outside the Council, they began to confer with one another,
Chapter 5 Ananias and Sapphira
34 But a certain man having risen up in the Council, a Pharisee named Gamaliel, a teacher of the law honored by all the people, commanded them to put the men outside for a short while.
Chapter 7 Stephen's Address to the Sanhedrin
21 And he having been set outside, the daughter of Pharaoh took him up, and she brought him up as her own son.
Chapter 9 The Road to Damascus
40 And Peter having put all outside and having bowed the knees, prayed. And having turned to the body he said, “Tabitha, arise!” And she opened her eyes, and having seen Peter, she sat up.
Chapter 14 Paul and Barnabas at Iconium
13 And the priest of Zeus, being just outside the city, having brought oxen and wreaths to the gates, was desiring with the crowds to sacrifice.
19 But Jews came from Antioch and Iconium, and having persuaded the crowds, and having stoned Paul, they dragged him outside the city, supposing him to have died.
Chapter 16 Timothy Joins Paul and Silas
13 And on the day of the Sabbaths, we went forth outside the city gate, by a river, where there was customary to be a place of prayer. And having sat down, we began speaking to the women having gathered.
Chapter 21 Paul's Journey to Jerusalem
5 And it happened that when we had completed the days, having set out, we journeyed, all accompanying us with wives and children as far as outside the city. And having bowed the knees on the shore, having prayed,
30 And the whole city was provoked, and there was a rushing together of the people. And having laid hold of Paul, they dragged him outside the temple, and immediately the doors were shut.

BOOK OF Romans
Chapter 2 God's Righteous Judgment
28 For the one on the outside a Jew is not, neither that on the outside in flesh is circumcision.

BOOK OF 1 Corinthians
Chapter 5 Immorality Rebuked
12 For what is it to me to judge those outside? Do you not judge those within?
13 But God will judge those outside. “Expel the evil out from among yourselves.”b
Chapter 6 Lawsuits among Believers
18 Flee sexual immorality. Every sin, whatever if a man might do, is outside the body, but the one sinning sexually sins against the own body.
Chapter 9 The Rights of an Apostle
21 To those outside the Law, as outside the Law (not being outside the law of God, but under the law of Christ) so that I might win those outside the Law.

BOOK OF 2 Corinthians
Chapter 7 Paul's Joy in the Corinthians
5 And indeed, of us having come into Macedonia, our flesh had no rest; but we are being pressed in every way: conflicts on the outside, fears within.

BOOK OF Galatians

BOOK OF Ephesians

BOOK OF Philippians

BOOK OF Colossians
Chapter 4 Fellow Workers
5 Walk in wisdom toward those outside, redeeming the time.

BOOK OF 1 Thessalonians
Chapter 4 Living to Please God
12 so that you may walk properly toward those outside, and may have need of no one. The Return of the Lord

BOOK OF 2 Thessalonians

BOOK OF 1 Timothy
Chapter 3 Qualifications for Overseers
7 And it behooves him also to have a good testimony from those outside, so that he might not fall into reproach and the snare of the devil. Qualifications for Deacons

BOOK OF 2 Timothy

BOOK OF Titus

BOOK OF Philemon

BOOK OF Hebrews
Chapter 13 Love for Brothers
11 For the bodies of those animals whose blood is brought for sin into the holy places by the high priest are burned outside the camp.
12 Therefore Jesus also suffered outside the gate, so that he might sanctify the people by the own blood.
13 Therefore we should go forth to Him outside the camp, bearing His reproach.

BOOK OF James

BOOK OF 1 Peter

BOOK OF 2 Peter

BOOK OF 1 John

BOOK OF 2 John

BOOK OF 3 John

BOOK OF Jude

BOOK OF Revelation
Chapter 11 The Two Witnesses
2 And leave out the courtyard outside the temple, and do not measure it, because it has been given up to the nations, and they will trample upon the holy city forty and two months.
Chapter 14 The Lamb and the 144,000
20 And the winepress was trodden outside the city, and blood flowed out of the winepress, as high as the bridles of the horses, to the distance of one thousand six hundred stadia.d
Chapter 22 The River of Life
15 outside are the dogs, and the sorcerers, and the sexually immoral, and the murderers, and the idolaters, and everyone loving and practicing falsehood.


Mark has a stealth copy here:

Chapter 7 Tradition and Worship
14... 4 and on coming from the market, they do not eat unless they wash; and there are many other things which they received, for them to hold to—washings of cups and vessels and utensils and couches for dining.a

And logion 40 has also been copied stealthily, by Matthew:

Chapter 15 Tradition and Worship
14 11 It is not what is entering into the mouth that defiles the man; but that going forth out of the mouth, this defiles the man.”
12 Then the disciples having approached, said to Him, “Do You know that the Pharisees, having heard this saying, were offended?”
40 13 And answering He said, “Every plant that My Heavenly Father has not planted will be rooted up.

Interesting, isn't it, the context that Matthew prefixes verse 13 with? Logion 14 indeed!

Mark really seems to get where Thomas is coming from - everyone else, not so much
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Re: Thomas' One from one thousand, two from ten thousand: 1,000 and 10 1,000

Post by Leucius Charinus »

The “Single Ones” in the Gospel of Thomas: A Monastic Perspective
René Falkenberg

Jesus said,
“I will select you, one from a thousand and two from ten thousand,
and they will stand since they are single ones.” (NHC II 38.1–3)2

Introduction

The above logion 23 from the Gospel of Thomas (abbr. Thomas) can be divided into two parts. In the first, Jesus says that the listeners will be among the elect (“I will select you”), where two fractions (“one from a thousand and two from ten thousand”) exemplify the rarity of that election. In the second part, these people are said to maintain a distinct physical posture (“they will stand”) based on their election and oneness (“since they are single ones”).3 In Thomas, ⲟⲩⲁ ⲟⲩⲱⲧ (“single ones”) clearly parallels ⲙⲟⲛⲁⲭⲟⲥ (Gr. μοναχός).4 The two expressions are synonyms or, at least, close variants on the Thomasine theme of oneness.5

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